Are you really that bothered about shared toilets?

[Beaverdam]

We were discussing this in work the other day. I really dont care about sharing toilets with males but some of the other women are really annoyed about the idea.

Are you annoyed about this? If so, what isit that you dont like about it? Do you think that the men will perve?

Why should anyone have to give a reason why they don’t want to share spaces?
There are many reasons.

What if she had been raped and doesn’t think it’s any of your business? I am not saying all men are rapists, just how is she going to try and mentally recover as best as she can when she has no safe space?

It’s not true that we should accept this as a done deal. It’s an erosion of legal rights to have single spaces based on sex. If we lie down and say ok, you really think that others legal rights won’t face the same erosion.

Ok you may not have an issue with shared spaces. Some do regardless of their sex. There are men out there who won’t be left alone with a women because they fear a false allegation.

I am being pushed to stay at home more because of shared spaces. How is that fair? What about my rights? Thankfully I can go out because of health issues I could get a radar key. But I’m not thinking well fuck the rest of you who are being pushed more to stay at home.

We should have been fully consulted and for the majority rule to win. But it didn’t go like that. It was a tick box situation that asked a small number of people, and ignored the concerns.

I know this thread is about toilets. But look at the bigger picture. Changing rooms, single sex pool/gym sessions, prisons, sports etc are all changing without considering what this does to us. How much more are we going to loose before people start waking up and see what’s going on?

On another thread it was mentioned that a couple of tv shows asked the unisex areas question. 80-85% where against the idea. So why is it going ahead? Years ago people fought for rights that are quickly being erased, now few do because it doesn’t impact you.

But consider this, do you have a crystal ball to see into the future? Anything could happen to you or someone you know at anytime, and then it becomes your problem. But too late to change anything.

We are always asked to think about the future generations. How is the erosion of rights we take for granted going to positivity impact their lives?

As pointed out by many pps, women have different needs when it comes to using a bathroom. If it was just to pee and poo, maybe there would be a case for unisex, but women go to the loo to change tampons/pads, rinse mooncups, possibly change clothes underwear if having a surprise or very heavy period, to change breastpads, to express milk, and to apply make up (make up is expected in many jobs so not necessarily trivial). Many women also bring small DC to the loo, at a club or pub they might go to get away from a creepy man, the list really is endless. Also many men admit to having a wank in the loo at work, so we will have to hear that too? Or do we think that they won't do it if women are present. With so many people, male and female, not wanting mixed loos, what are the actual advantages of them?

Another who's bothered - for the same reasons as others. Safer, and others don't feel comfortable with it.

What's interesting is thinking about myself feeling comfortable. I'm someone who currently (mid twenties) probably wouldn't mind sharing. Even for a second just focussing on me (not the point - others mind so it shouldn't even be an option):

• at 9 years old when I started my periods and was trying to figure it out I refused to go to the toilet with any of my friends to change pads as I didn't want them to know. I would have been excruciatingly embarrassed to share with men and would have not changed, meaning I would have bled through even more than I already did
• at age 10/11 trying to work out tampons I would have again hated it
• unexpected and heavy periods all through my teens meant I had to ask friends for tampons/pads sometimes, or i gave them out (as I almost always had some). At that age we would have felt far less comfortable asking around boys
• in my early twenties when I had an ovarian cyst and my endometriosis was diagnosed, peeing and pooing and my period were all excruciating to the point of not always being able to hold in sounds of pain whilst going
• same with the anal fissure I then developed

I've only been alive 25 years, there's quite possibly pregnancy and breastfeeding and children and menopause and all sorts to come!

Even those who are fine with it - even barring safety concerns and religious concerns - you can't know when you'll really need or want some privacy. You can't know when you suddenly won't be okay with it, and it'll be gone.

We need to keep them for everyone who does need them, but don't forget that might also be you even if you don't feel you need them now.

Oh and I agree with the theory that periods shouldn't be anything to be embarrassed about, 100%. But the reality is we're not there yet and forcing people into sharing in the expectation periods will become more accepted isn't okay. Plus that would only address one of the issues around shared toilets.

Piss everywhere and the strong urine smell

It's depressing to see those of us (the majority) being airily dismissed as neurotic prudes by women who think other women's rights are theirs to give away.

I don't mind a male doctor giving me a breast or gynae exam for example. But I 100% understand why many women do mind, and I support their right to have a female doctor. Why is that so difficult for some people ffs, a bit of empathy for their fellow women?

Quite.
Excellent posts flipperdoda
And yes, to all of those posters who dismiss these genuine and experienced concerns as sad or neurotic, bully for you.
I am happy you've never had a bad experience (yet) but you will at some point. Sadly not everyone is reasonable and decent and respects other people's boundaries or needs. Which is why we still need sex segregation as much as ever.

We're all adults, there really isn't any reason to be embarrassed about a period

Well whoopdifuckingdo you're ok with it. Not everyone is.

I've cleaned both male and female toilets. The men's toilets were fucking rank. Piss everywhere. Shit stains. Pubes where they'd been wanking. The worst that happened with the women's was a nappy in the wrong bin.

One of my daughter’s friends was taped in her mid teens. She can’t bring herself to use mixed-sex toilets. According to DD, she agonises about whether she is being both sexist and transphobic in not wanting gender neutral facilities.

It would be nice if there was the same concern shown about her actual needs, wouldn’t it?

She won’t tell this to school as she cannot discuss it openly. But given how common sexual assault is, they could surely expect that several of their girls will feel the same.

Bloody phone. Raped, not taped.

Wanting a sex segregated space is neither sexist nor transphobic. Not every bloody thing is ‘phobic!

We're all adults, there really isn't any reason to be embarrassed about a period

Well whoopdifuckingdo you're ok with it. Not everyone is.

@YouJustDoYou

No need to get arsey about something I'm correct about. I didn't talk negatively about those embarrassed about their period, I said it's a damn shame that we're taught to be embarrassed about periods and it's something that needs to change as this mentality causes a massive amount of stress for women.

I have horrific periods thanks to endometriosis and adenomyosis. It's taken me a long time to get to the "fuck it time to be open about my period" stage. A stage that I encourage every woman to be at. Why would you have a salty response about that?

I'll be honest I don't like the idea of it. Some men would take advantage of it to perve because we know some men do take advantage of situations to perve, that's just a fact. I just don't see what is in it for women.

I've heard the argument about our bathrooms at home being unisex so what's the deal etc but obviously we know who is in our house using them, they're not strangers.

I’ve done phone sex.
Guys had pooh, urine and period fetishes.
One guy used to phone me every month for a week to talk about my period. He wouldn’t wank on the phone, it was mentally saved for later.
Some did wank on the phone as I pissed (poured a glass of water) poohed (dropped something in water).

Now imagine these guys in your space. You really want to hear the guy who howls when he comes?
What are you going to tell your children when they hear him cuming, and you will hear some as it’s their fetish (had these calls as well)?

What are you going to say when he starts shouting he’s gonna cum?

Men standing in cubicles without closing doors I am actually envious of. Imagine if you could just turn your back and not have to touch the door. That would annoy me after awhile, they can puss much easier than us.

Yes, I bloody am "bothered". My privacy is not yours to give away. I have neither to explain or justify it. I want to pee, check my outfit, have a bra fitting, recover from surgery and a million other things knowing that those around me are also female. I realise that probably makes me old fashioned to a generation that watches exhibitionists strip off for a TV show, but that's MY choice and its not up to you to remove it from me.

Why DO YOU want to have mixed sex facilities?

When People With Pensies tackle the issues with their group using said penises to attack and abuse those without penises, then I'll be up for a discussion on whether toilets, which by definition can't have CCTV in them, should be mixed sex, or whether there should be the option for the people without penises to have a penis-free unmonitored space to pee in.

Too many penises in that sentence, as I find is the case in life in general :)

Oh and there IS a way round this - you can provide a series of single bathrooms, with washbasin etc, which is a lockable space which opens out into the public arena. Only that would mean £££, one presumes.

It would be nice if some of the loudest people (hmm, I find they tend to be the ones With Penises) on this topic were to acknowledge the needs of everyone affected here and to campaign for that. But no. Seems to be more an interest in gaining access, rather than adjusting access. Which doesn't help.

My workplace recently switched from sex-segregated toilets to individual ones as part of a refurb. About the size of a smallish disabled loo (but I suspect don't meet actual requirements for disabled access). I don't know anything about why that decision was made.

As far as I know there've not been significant complaints but then I'm not who people would complain to. The loos do stay clean. Most are in pairs so they could be signed as male/female but they haven't been.

Why DO YOU want to have mixed sex facilities?

This is the better question. What are the real advantages to women, men, children (and other groups who don’t want defining)? I’m a women and can’t think of an advantage to me (selfish I know).

I never understand why when this question gets posted someone always comes out with - but at home you share a toilet, what’s the difference?

I wonder how they have got to be an adult and still not understand the difference between a toilet at home and a public one. Even a child could work out the blaring difference.

You know the people you live with. That stranger could be anyone. We teach our children about stranger danger for a reason.

If females were safe from males then why are males in prison for crimes against women?
You think those guys have a tattoo on their head that said - I will brutally rape you - I will beat you to death - I will stalk you - I will sexually harass you etc?

Don’t be daft.
We shouldn’t have to but we make conscious decisions about our safety. We avoid the unlit road at night because we are aware of the risk. We advice others to do the same. But when it comes to wanting to feel safe in a toilet we are told fuck you and your safety or feelings. If probing aliens landed tough shit, you would have to share your protected space.

Separate 'rooms' as opposed to cubicles seems safer but there will still be some dodgy bastards sniffing the sanitary bin, stealing used sanitary towels or wanking on the seat.

Like a poster above I've an idea of the full spectrum of kinks out there thanks to an ill-advised foray into fetlife, and it's eye-opening.

it doesn't bother me at all - we have 1 toilet in our office shared by 3 of us. everyone keeps it nice & clean with no problems

Having collapsed having a miscarriage in front of a dear male friend, had intimate exams and care from male nurses/Drs and not giving a monkeys about my dh seeing me having a period, I don't really consider myself squeamish. However, in front of some of the puerile Beavis & Butthead-a-likes and stained trousered slimeballs I have had the joy of working with over the years, I have learnt to exercise some caution when it comes to being in the vulnerable position of having a piss/shit/period/miscarriage......"evolved" is not a word I'd use for them.

It seems naive to assume that there aren't arseholes, wankers and perverts out there, and to take a sensible precaution against that.

...and it seems selfish to expect others to just get with the programme of being A OK with periods and bodily functions. There is nothing wrong with wanting a bit of privacy and dignity, it is something everyone deserves if they feel the need for it for whatever reason.

Yes.

BlastEndedSkrewt that's because only 3 people share it though. The situation is similar where I work - we actually work in a large converted house and there are two staff toilets (one is a full bathroom, one a toilet) not a male one and a female one, but tere are only 8 of us and we're only all present at the same time for team meetings twice per month. It's very different to sharing mixed sex toilets with 20 or 30 colleagues, or colleagues and clients, or in very big companies where people move around and between sites with potentially hundreds of people who work for the same employer but you couldn't identify by name or even department. I've worked in places like that too and there were certainly men about I wouldn't want to be in a confined space with - look at the post unthread from the woman who works on building sites.