to remove DD from her martial arts class

[cheers4nothing]

gosh, this might sound so petty but I really don't know what do do so here it goes:

DD is 9. Very sporty and started martial arts classes some 3 years ago. Loved it and doing very well.

there is a girl in school who has also been a bit of a bully. Always trying to compete with DD, telling children (so DD says) that she is better in A/B/C than DD. Anyhow, I always told DD just to ignore and it worked ok.

One year after DD started MA, said girl joined too. DD said this girl keep telling her how rubbish her martial arts is and she also says it at school. As DD loves martial arts so much, but doesn't want to attend the class with this girl anymore, I move her to a different class (same club and instructor). All good. But 3 months later the other girl's mums starts bringing her DD to this class instead. bullying in school continues, so we change classes again (still same club - they have various classes throughout the week). Been going well for about 4 months

I bumped into the girls mother yesterday who told me she swapped her DD's class again too and her DD will go to the same class as my DD.

DD is besides herself and really doesn't want to go anymore now.

Should I insist she continues as she love MA so much for remove her as it clearly doesn't work for her with the other girl? I want her to become resilient but also enjoy her hobby.

I am thinking of finding a different club but what if the other girl rocks up there? And no, I have no idea why they seem to follow us around. May be totally innocent but it really ruined it for DD.

PS: I am not really sure what is going on in school. I asked about it at parents evening but teachers are unaware.

This is upsetting I can see but I would suggest that right now you’re running away from this and if you’re serious about teaching resilience then this is the moment to do it. Yes speak to instructors and teachers but your DD also needs some proper techniques to deal with this.

I also thought that Bullying book recommended above had excellent ideas. It was very practical and as the PP said it teaches that bullying happens no matter what anti-bullying programme is put in place, it’s a part of life and at some point we are all going to have to learn to deal with it. It seems like this is your daughter’s time.

The other book I liked is Bullies to Buddies which has some very good child-friendly explanations of why this kind of bullying happens, what might be going on with the other kid and some great ways of dealing with it. One method I found really helpful with my DS is that if a friend is saying eg, “I’m loads better than you at MA and you’re rubbish,” the response should be a very disinterested, “Oh fair enough, do you really think so?” or “That’s interesting. Why do you think that?” Or, “well I guess I’ll have to keep practising until I’m as good as you”. Or “That’s fine if you feel that way.” Absolutely NOT showing distress or getting upset. This approach can really take the wind out of the sails of bullying because if the child shows they don’t really care, what else is there to say?

I know that this is a massive learning curve for kids and difficult to get their heads round but i honestly saw it working with my DS’ bully and i think it taught DS that that you don’t automatically have to take someone else’s mean words so seriously. There’s definitely a bit of learning in here about who gives a flying fuck what someone else thinks of you - you don’t have to believe it.

Feel I have to add I am bigoted as when the boys picked on me, sensi would encourage me to go hard on them, and at school a well aimed thump to the bully's jaw ended the bullying

A sharp smack to the bully's jaw usually solves it

Although it mostly does I really wouldn't advocate doing it in a martial arts class. We had a man in our class who had a problem with women attending (just two of us) and ended up one class where he hit and bruised our breasts and legs pretty badly. Didn't do it to the men, just us. The next lesson the instructor used him as an example for something, made a "mistake" and hurt the guy really bad. Someone closeby said he saw the instructor whispering something in his ear as well. Guy never did it again.

and at school a well aimed thump to the bully's jaw ended the bullying

Good for you that your bully wasn't stronger. Or didn't simply decide to bring back up to hold you down... Because escalation isn't a presicely unlikely outcome if you go down that road. Which is something responsible adults (like your former 'sensei') ought to be aware of.

And teaching children to end fights with their fists (or feet, knees etc) is a really bad idea as well... Seeing as that can quickly veer into genuinely criminal behaviour. It is therefore important to teach them the appropriate reactions to things. Especially because they don't have the same mindset as adults...

As for your argument about short term physical discomfort... Sounds like an argument people would use to justify smacking or spanking tbh.

Yeah true, less kids were arseholes and less knife crime when smacking was ok mind

You have a very black and white view of life @mynewusernamenow

less kids were arseholes and less knife crime

And yet you're suggesting that the OP's dd escalate...

crime has decreased where I live, btw. Despite a clear decrease of corporal punishment (which was a legally enshrined and protected parental right when I was little...).

Is it bullying or is the girl actually better at the MA than your dd?

Even if the other girl was MUCH better, crowing about it, and publicly mocking OP's DD is bullying.

I'd move dd but mention it to her torture there. They might think it odd and it'd be good to say class is an escape from this bully, so please done let her into this new class and she keeps following her.

Definitely mention it to the sensei.

This would be an absolute no-go in my DCs dojo, they are very very strict about messing about, teasing or bullying. A DC who has bullied my DC in the past (in another sport club) joined the same dojo recently and my heart sank, but my DC says there have been no issues at all.

The instructor needs to acknowledge that there IS an issue, and while it is playing out in school, it would be good practice at any sports club to promote positive encouragement between all children towards one another, and to address any situation where one child may be intimidating or causing upset to another child, and not just ignoring the situation. It's about jealousy usually and control. Your daughter is good at this sport I am guessing, and had made friends. This other girl has been deliberately causing problems and it began here. I'd ask what policy is regarding good practice and specific policy for bullying. Sounds silly but the club does need to be more responsive and should have some kind of code of practice, even if not regulated, as sports clubs don't have to be by law.
School need to also be fully aware of the situation. Usually I'd say (from years of experience) don't speak to the parent directly, however I think words need to be had in this case with the mum. Don"t go guns blazing, and if she responds defensively that's then on her. Make your point firmly and calmly that this has been going on for long enough and it must stop. Don't back down. Your daughter has done absolutely nothing wrong and this girl is being an out and out bully saying such spiteful things.

@cannycat20
Well said! I wish I were so eloquent 😁

First I have not had time to read the whole thread so apologies if cross posting.
My experience is in Kung-Fu and karate. Don’t know what ma your dc is learning but normally students/students‘ parents do not decide which class/group they attend. Groupings are usually based on some combination of age and belt level. The shifu or sensei decides which class/group the students attend. S/he is ideally placed to deal with this problem as if your dc is very keen and is therefore training hard, she is probably ahead of the other child and can legitimately be put into a different group. If the problem is that the other child behaves appropriately in training but criticizes your dc‘s performance, then they need to be told very firmly preferably by their sensei, that it is considered disrespectful for anyone below dan to criticize another karateka‘s performance. They are simply not qualified to do so. And that the ultimate punishment in karate for disrespect is exclusion from the dojo

Whilst being a good sportsman/woman/person is in part dealing with different personalities at your daughter's age I'd say the priority is to be enjoying it. Change the club. It should be anticipation and excitement not dread each week.

speak to the instructor. Part of MA is respecting others. Is it possible this bully is asking to be put in the same classes as your DD.

I can’t understand why you didn’t just tell the mum her daughter is a bully and to stop stalking your DD in classes.

I also find it hard to believe if it is as pervasive as it is, the school aren’t doing anything about it. Don’t most schools have strong anti bullying policies these days?

School anit bullying policy is never enforced.

Have you tried speaking to the instructor at the club? They might be able to offer some support, ensure girls don’t end up in same
class again?

Talk to the club/ instructor. As a martial arts instructor I know that this behaviour is not tolerated in any way. Martial arts should teach respect for others and discipline. The instructor can give a class on bullying and address it in such a way that the other girl learns. I once had known bully child in the class I taught. I mimicked her behaviour, used her exact phrases etc as an example of bullying but didn't single her out at all. Just made bullies sound stupid so they think twice about doing it again. Done in a clever and responsible way, the club will help even to the point of stopping the other girl from attending your daughter's class. The other girl is obviously jealous of your daughter.

LilQueenie if a school does not enforce their own anti bullying policy they are breaking the law. I often see parents on social media saying the anti bullying policy is 'a joke', but when a school is challenged about why minimum standards are not being met, which legally they must be for all schools and registered settings, and why they are not following their own policies, they will get it together because they know that they could be up the creek witout a paddle if they don't. The problem is when parents just accept that policies are not implemented correctly then nothing ever happens, and of course bullying issues continue.

You need to grow a pair and tell this child’s mum that you have moved your daughters MA class to get away from her daughter as she is causing your daughter distress at school. Can you please leave your daughter in the other class???!!! Having said that our children are always going to come up against people they don’t like/ who don’t like them and you can’t always run

Either speak to the mother, tell her why you moved DD and that you are not happy that she keeps changing the class so her DS can continue the bullying.

Then move classes and tell instructor why. Ask if they can keep girls apart.

Or ... don't say anything to mother, move DD and speak to instructor.

I would also speak to school and tell them all this.

Sorry OP but I haven't read all the posts, so someone else may have already said this:
It is possible that the child bullying your child actually thinks of your child as their best/only friend, and rather than trying to put your child down, they are actually (very clumsily) trying to get your child to like them by showing off their own 'good qualities'. Many socially challenged children behave in a similar way, not realising that they are actually causing the opposite reation. If this is the case it would explain her joining MA, she may not actually like it much herself, but being desperate to be your daughter's best friend, she might be following her around in the hope that your daughter will pay her some 'good' attention. It sounds like her mother might have social awkwardness tendencies herself. Maybe talk to your daughter about it first, and if she agrees try to arrange to meet the mum for coffee sometime, whilst treating the 2 girls to a milkshake or hot chocolate, or something. From the interactions between the 4 of you, you may garner some idea about why this behaviour is happening. My best guess is that they are both on the Asperger's part of the Autistic spectrum. Just a thought...

mynewusernamenow you sound like the twat MA teacher in the karate kid, that runs the class but thinks it's all about aggression

Love all the responses about "running away" etc. Clearly never been bullied. It's different for children..they have no power over the situation and often teachers make it worse by punishing the victim if they ever dare stand up to the bully. There is absolutely no shame in staying away from bullies! To state the bleeding obvious, it's certainly the most pleasant option as then the victim no longer has to deal with being treated like shit