Is this fair/ok?

[AndysFavouriteToy]

4 kids under 8.
Dh does one overnight at his parents for a break/see them/convenience (they live near his work) leaving me with no helpmfor one eve and morning.

He does one night a week with mates and home after 11pm.

He does one day a weekend for his hobby (usually 9am to 3pm)

Its bloody hard work with the kids, I get no break. When he is home the most he will do is load a dishwasher or watch kids (by watch I mean put.on a movie and play on his phone.)

Half term has been fun, but I am knackered and have worked my socks off making sure they have a fun week. Another Friday night alone without help and I'm getting fed up.

Dh's side will be;
Works 40 hour week, needs time to.do.extra work and so.goes.to parents to carry this out and have peace and see them without kids interrupting, nights with mates are so he can chill after long week and network, hobby is to keep fit and see his bro (yes it's cycling!)

His arguments make sense and are ok, but I am knackered and lonely.

I go out every 4-6 weeks for a drink/meal with my best friend, usually home by 11pm and that is the only time i am away from kids and always made to feel guilty for it.

I am sahm, don't contribute financially, but am training so will be able to.when youngest starts school.

Aiu to resent how much time dh spends away from home?

Mother of god I'm just floored by the pure,unadulterated bullshit I read online here-if my husband even suggested this nonsense with that many children and me doing it all at home while he's off on his personal jollies he'd never sleep at home again

My cousin was like this with his golf etc. His wife joined a book group and started leaving the children with them regularly. Then she added a second book group.

Spoiler alert: there were no book groups. She just went to cafes twice a month for a year or more so he'd learn to look after his children. He still doesn't know, but he's much more involved and competent now.

@Ellisandra ah ok must have missed that post

Why do women on here whose “partners” do fuck all with their kids ALWAYS say they’re great with them?

Partly denial - once you’ve procreated (sometimes several times over) with someone it’s hard to admit you got it so blindingly wrong.

Parent socialisation- society expects very little of men and we swallow it all our lives. If they’re even a bit more committed & present than your father was/your friend’s DP is/your BIL etc then it makes it seem they’re a fucking gold-star specimen.

Partly wishful thinking - if I say it is so (He’s a great dad/he loves the kids/he’d do anything for them) then it must be so - and he definitely won’t abandon them even if we end up divorced...

He didn't put them to bed in their clothes, he didn't put them to bed at all... he put movies on and gave them devices and left them to it until they fell asleep (or didn't).

That's not 'couldn't' - that's deliberately didn't bother.
What does he do that's being a 'great dad'?

Don't you work at least 40 hours too, OP?
And when you get paid work, you plan on continuing to do everything so it won't affect him at all?
Brilliant for him, the selfish git.

How sure are you that he's with his parents OP?

It's hard though. The answer that gets trotted out on MN is always "do the same to him, get a time consuming hobby of your own etc etc" but that doesn't resolve the problem that actually you want to spend more time together and have him want to prioritise you and your relationship.

He works 40 hours per week plus overtime which is why he’s with his mum. The gym / socialisation is needed otherwise that kind of work schedule could drive anyone to an early grave.

ha ha. Early grave for a normal working life. Do you think minding 4 children on your own might drive you to an early grave or is it only "men's work" that does that.

Both dh and I worked 40 hours a week plus (unpaid) overtime plus travel when our 3 kids were little. No one was going to an early grave. it was just life and we had lovely times in the evening and weekends with the children. We didn't have sleepovers every week with our mummies and daddies though. Nor did we have a regular one night out and one weekend day out until they got a lot older. But that wasn't a sacrifice because - amazingly - we liked being together with our children more than we did with our parents pretending we were childfree.

I'm trying to imagine my Mum and Dad's reaction if I decided to leave dh to the kids one night every week and stay with them. Or my MIL's reaction to dh. She'd be coming over to help me and leaving him there

I think NoSquirells may have a point OP.

Yanbu. But mine does nothing and by nothing, I mean nothing . Selfish man and it's all about him. He contributes zero. Always out and pays for eff all. Seriously considering next moves...

Wow, he works 40 hours a week and needs time to relax and unwind. How many hours per week do you work? 100? More?

Men can be arseholes. Posts like yours make me so angry.

You need to start standing up for yourself. You’re so quick to defend him (“his arguments make sense”) and so quick to put yourself down (“I don’t contribute financially”). What does contributing financially actually look like? How much would your monthly childcare costs be if you weren’t at home? Your work May not be remunerated but care comes at a massive cost and that is your role.

Adults do not need to go and stay overnight at their parents every week. That is not normal or reasonable. He has responsibilities and can not put seeing his parents above caring for his kids, spending time with you and doing his fair share of household chores.

Nights out do not need to be as regular as once per week. When you have kids (especially 4 of them which I assume he consented to) then you have to accept that your life will change. He seems to be deluded.

A whole day every weekend spent on a hobby is also totally unreasonable. Do your kids even recognise their dad?

I think this comes back to who the driver for having kids is. If the woman is keen to have kids and the man goes along with it, I think he perceives her as having got what she wanted and she must be enjoying it. Many men are bored by parenthood and with the majority of couples I know, it was the woman who desired kids. I know some great fathers who were ambivalent about having kids but I think for many the ambivalence to parenthood remains.

Without being inflammatory...are you sure he is there every week? Very strange to go from extremely reluctant to visit, to once a week. Have you heard them confirm he visits that regularly?

He isn't awful

Since he sees his parents he says I don't need to. They aren't that nice and are not bothered about seeing kids. He says part of motivation to go there is to relieve us from spending "our" time with them. Previously I would arrange visits without him as he never wanted to see them, which is why it's difficult to argue as he is rebuilding his relationship with them.

Yes he IS awful @AndysfavouriteToy

And if I were you I'd be very suspicious about his visits to his parents. Are you sure he's really there?

He doesn't seem to want to spend time with you

I know this sounds harsh but was he really an involved & commited father when you had your first child, did he put the baby to bed, get up in the night, do things just on his own with the baby? I guess he probably wasn’t and yet, between you, you somehow agreed to have four children in quick succession?

Agree with a PP that some women seen so driven to have more babies that they really don’t consider the true implications, and the DH just goes along with it to keep his wife happy ... could there be some truth in this?

And I know it’s ‘too late’ in your case but maybe other people may take time to think a little more carefully when they read about these situations.

Why do his arguments make perfect sense? It sounds therefore like yours don’t. That smacks of wilful manipulation.

How far away from work do you live? Just wondering if you should pop over to the pils one evening after work as a surprise... to make sure he’s actually bloody there. That’s a heck of a lot of changes in 12 months at a time when he needed to be supportive - Ie after the birth of your 4th.

Please don’t have any more children with him. I’d be surprised if your still having sex with this manchild.

I also agree with what Ragwort said. It did enter my mind too.

You lot seem to be assuming she trapped or hassled him into these kids. Back off. OP...check he is really there as it sounds like this man feels way too entitled to do what the bloody hell he wants all the time. Seems odd that he's suddenly transformed into son of the year.

YANBU, he is being a massive dick! Stop apologising for him and tell him to sort himself out!

That seems really odd - are you sure he’s not cheating? That’s a normal work week not burn out territory either.

Sounds like hes having an affair

No it’s not fair, fair is one evening a week to a hobby that’s not an overnight stay. He has a family he needs to think about the needs of the family collectively and not just his. Just because he works it doesn’t mean he can switch off from family life, everyone I know would agree going to work is easier than being home with kids! He is living the life of Riley.

he needs his health
As does the OP. He works 40 hours a week, which is pretty standard, not 80.

He works 40 hours per week plus overtime which is why he’s with his mum. The gym / socialisation is needed otherwise that kind of work schedule could drive anyone to an early grave.
@GrumpyHoonMain
My DH works more than that and still manages not to opt out of family life and responsibilities, or run off to his mum's. They're our responsibility, not just mine.

In my experience the problem with parenting small children is that it's very difficult for parents to enjoy a balanced life without significant family support. Little children are incredibly demanding and having four of them is only going to intensify the pressure.

It's easy to suggest that parents should have time out to themselves, but inevitably that often means that the other parent is stuck at home looking after the kids solo. If OP's DH can't or won't reciprocate then an imbalance is created. Also if one parent wants to effectively spend half of their non-working time away from the family then that places the other parent in a difficult position. If they try and adopt a quid pro quo arrangement where they have the equivalent time to pursue their own interests then they are basically removing any prospect of "family time" which I think would be detrimental to the children and to the marriage. If they try and maintain a decent amount of family time then they are forced to sacrifice some of their "entitlement" to time on their own which could easily lead to resentment as they watch their husband swan off on their own every other night/day.

No it is not fair and no it is not ok.

He is being so incredibly selfish.

He is opting out of being a parent and a part of the family just because he wants to do other things.

He should fit a hobby and socialising in around the family not during time he should be there with you all.

I am a SAHP and my husband works 40 hours a week.

He goes to the gym on his lunch hour and goes for the occasional run early on a Sunday morning before the kids wake up.

I go the gym after the kids have gone to bed or quickly for an hour between bath and bed.

We mostly visit our parents together as a family, and there is absolutely no need for sleepovers when they live reasonable close. He is being a man child, probably letting his mummy cook his tea and breakfast and having a full undisturbed night sleep. While you are left at home sorting the kids and house out alone. Wtf.

While you are not working you are contributing to the family in a very significant way which enables him to work without the worry of childcare, school run, etc. That is just as important as if you were bringing in a wage. If you were working he would have to be as responsible for running the kids around and being available should they become ill or whatever. You are also studying while looking after the kids and household so or exactly doing nothing, if you can manage that he can manage working alongside being a parent.

It is absolutely draining at times being a SAHP and he should be be ditching you two week nights and a full weekend day EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Monthly stopover with parents wouldn't bother me, every few weeks having an evening with friends, fine. But doing all of these things every week is taking the absolute piss.

He needs to reduce what he does and enable you to have some time for yourself and make more time for the family as a whole.

If he won't do that you need to decide whether you want this lifestyle because it will get a whole lot harder when you are working if he keeps this up.

4 kids under 8 was always going to be hard work. That's why many opt to have 2 or 3 only. He is clearly finding it all too much between a demanding stressful job and a demand and stressful life at home so he is escaping to remain sane.

How did the discussion came about having 4 kids? Was it something he was full on with, or more something you wanted and he went along with it? If the latter, he might feel that as it was what you wanted, he doesn't have to help as much as deep inside he knows he should.

40 hours is not an awful lot at all! It’s your basic full time job.

He is awful OP