To think that calling transwomen Male terms is against guidelines?

[ChilledBee]

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions

So this is what Mumsnet say yet they allow threads which refer to the possibility of trans women using a changing room as "blokes". If I were a Trans woman considering giving my opinion around my presence in female changing rooms, hearing everyone refer to people like me as a man or a bloke would "hurtful" and "I'd struggle to engage". Why is this allowed, Mumsnet?

While I appreciate your intent - I'm reporting your use of the N word.

Love it. Always trying to discredit the person rather than their point.

And in reality, sticking your hands in your ears and saying la-la-la and pretend human biology and anatomy isn't real.

humansarehorrible

You do realise that research has shown that the supposed difference between male and female brains is very unclear and to the extent it exists at all may well be due to socialisation, ie life experiences. For example, London black cab drivers show alterations in their brain structure due to having to memorise routes etc for the knowledge.
www.scientificamerican.com/article/london-taxi-memory/

There is a name for the myth of the gendered brain - neurosexism

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

Ok, I'm really late to the thread and would have preferred this comment to go at the beginning, but OP I think you are missing the point about the "blokes" comments on the M&S thread.

If you let transwomen use the women's area, you basically let all men in, because objectively speaking there's no way to tell the difference between a man who identifies as woman, and a man who's just saying he identifies as a woman.

So M&S are basically opening the doors to blokes who want to perv, get off on it all, NOT saying transwomen are going to do this.
Pervy blokes will relish the opportunity.

Sorry, but if you let transwomen into women-only spaces you let blokes in too.

It doesn't mean we are calling transwomen blokes.

It's been said before but is getting lost in other debate.

If self ID allows anyone to ID their way into a female changing room, then actual men, real blokes will do so to get their kicks.

Nothing about trans women, the words 'men' and 'blokes' are not referring to them.

We are referring to actual men who will LIE and take advantage to declare they are women WITHOUT BELIEVING IT THEMSELVES.

So bloke / men isn't an insult as we're not talking about transwomen.

The threat doesn't come from transwomen.

The threat comes from men.

Males used that word to describe Men/Women/Children they did not see as worthy of classification, now its used to prove Women are not worthy of classification A disgusting word now ONLY used on mumsnet by white people to shame Females and Black Men and Women and Children
What word? That one you used, the N one?
Seeing as that's the one that's been pulled up? Unless it's another one you mean?
Why would it be tied into race if it is the N word you're on about when referring to all women, children, men not seen as worthy as classification (your words?)

It is highly triggering and comes up on preview.
The point could be made without using the full word.

The N word

Is that different to the word'?

If I say "You're an N word" is that not offensive?

The N word is the exact same fucking word, it's just pronouncing it differently

We are referring to actual men who will LIE and take advantage to declare they are women WITHOUT BELIEVING IT THEMSELVES. So bloke / men isn't an insult as we're not talking about transwomen. The threat doesn't come from transwomen. The threat comes from men

That, there, shows up the "debate."
There's lots of posters on MN who do say all transwomen pose a threat, never be women, always be a bloke whatever they do.....
even though there's some of us who do say that they can see that self ID could be a problem

@drspouse it is being used in the exact way that the full word is used. To silence, dehumanise and cause shame.

There is no moral high ground in using the middle class "I'm allowed to say it so long as I don't pronounce it properly" version

It is triggering and offensive regardless.

There's lots of posters on MN who do say all transwomen pose a threat, never be women, always be a bloke whatever they do

Where? Show one?

The “debate” is men in women’s spaces.
Telling women what to do, how to fucking talk and policing us...like men have been doing for hundreds of years and we are meant to be all lovely and fluffy.
Btw sounds like a right laugh in your house OP - I had visions of you pointing a finger at the door as your husband’s friend walks out the door with your halo shining in self righteousness, well done for the menz ! Boak.

SELF IDENTIFICATION IS NOT LAW IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.
Just thought I'd bellow that out.
Too many corporations and companies think that it is.
This deliberate misinterpretation of the Equality Act 2010 should be challenged every time.
I have no comment to make on the derail with the N word.

If you are offended by reality, then yes you are going to have a problem.

Trans women are men. Get over it, as they say.

Never be a woman is true.

Women are overwhelmingly reluctant to anger men, so they say it in what is believed to be a womans forum.

TWs say they are women which offends a lot of us. Who decides whose offence matters?

Apparently trans women turn into women in the grave according to a previous op.
If I was religious I’d cross myself.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis
even though there's some of us who do say that they can see that self ID could be a problem
Hello again

Sadly selfID is law in terms of changing spaces, schools, and sport.

The proof is in it being treated as law in changing rooms, sports and schools.
Again it is not transwomen who intend to live as women through surgery pushing this.
,Self id is followed through by a tiny minority who are unlikely to involve themselves in this debate, because the Gov says you're not allowed to ask

Only those intending to follow through with surgery are likely to self id through the proper channels.

But you cannot challenge the rest as that is illegal

Where? Show one?

Omigod
Just no.
It's there if you are able to or want to see it lol
I could name several revered posters who have made it ample clear but I ain't gonna.
What's the point though? If you don't see it, fair enough - need to see it for yourself. I can't do it so no, I'm not linking to one lol

Hello again

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

They didn't trivialize though.
At all.

They absolutely did. And it's not your place to police how someone else interprets that. As a disabled, mixed race woman I don't need you telling me what I can and can't take offence to. Shocking that you need that explained to you frankly.

Also, stating a FACT is not transphobic.
Man = adult human male (XY)
Unless sheer belief changes things at the chromosomal level, that will always be true.

I won't ever accept men of any kind (apart from male children with their mothers) in sex segregated spaces. I also stand by that sentence in my post, doesn't matter to me much whether you like it or not.
The fact that a debate cannot even be had and women cannot express their beliefs without being labelled as transphobic is the childish foot stomping that I'm talking about. Waking up and deciding to be a woman does not make it so and never will.

I'd struggle to take any man seriously who told me they knew what being a woman felt like. I've also yet to see a "transwoman" opt in to the sex-based pay disparity. I mean they want to live the life of a woman so take the bad withthe good. Funny how men like to keep certain privileges, eh?

I will never ever centre men in feminism.
Too bad that feelings are hurt in the process but, real women, in the meantime are being murdered by violent, abusive men. And those are the people I care about.

Ask yourself if you'd be happy with your 12 year old daughter being approached in a woman's bathroom to ask if she needs help inserting a tampon. Imagine a man being surprised that he didn't see her fully naked in the women's changing room. (This really happened, research Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv)

If you're happy with then then you crack on. Meanwhile women who actually care about other women will try and protect your rights for you.

I am not full of hate or fear about transwomen. I just don't believe that they are women. I am entitled to that opinion and I won't have my freedom to advocate for protected sex-based rights curtailed. I'm not sorry if that offends anyone.

Looked, can't see em

Try again

Gimme your twitter name cause this is getting too nastyfor MN