AIBU to think this is gaslighting from DH?

[Fedriteup]

DH, I believe, has a pattern of grumpiness/stress and I feel he can be overbearing, withdrawn or snappy for periods (prob rowed about this for years, but no admission of this on his part). I expect it’s work related but he’s never said as much.

All very petty on a Sat night in, DD playing with a disco light in the same room. After ten mins or so DH looks up from phone, says “please turn the lights off it’s giving me a headache and I can’t have a headache in my own home.” So I turn it off, go to phone app to switch normal lights on with a very brief delay, DH says seconds later “I don’t want to be plunged into darkness either what’s going on?”. Lights go on except one “what’s happening with this light?” Angrily said BTW. I snapped back and told him to be patient and I was doing it, did raise voice as I was irritated by his tone and impatience. But not screaming. He walks out, comes back in and says to me “I do many things but I DON’T raise my voice at people”. DS aged 8 said “yes you do”. I’m mortified the kids were party to all this. More words exchanged after the kids went to bed. Pretty much a replay of the above.

He hasn’t spoken to me since, I tried to discuss last night after kids in bed. Asked how his meeting had gone, but he mumbled and eventually said he’s still upset at me for raising my voice and playing the kids off against him.

I haven’t apologised, said it wasn’t acceptable to talk to me like that in front of the kids and that he provoked me. I shouldn’t have reacted but I’m flabbergasted at how this is playing out. I’ve tried twice to talk to him in a friendly ish manner and been blanked. I’ve never played the kids off against him, I know how damaging that can be. My elder child is quite protective of me and i think is keyed into the fact DH is the more bad tempered parent.

Last falling out was when he came home drunk after a work function, laughed at the tea I’d made him (bit of a kids tea but so what) and called a school mum I vaguely know a hag. This was about a month ago and I was very upset, but honestly I can’t remember how it was resolved.

We’ve had bereavements, job loss, moves etc to deal with over the past six or so years. How do I deal with this ridiculousness? Just go? Don’t want to feel terrorised in my own home. He’s good domestically and with the kids. I’m retraining and wonder if being responsible for just the one salary is also taking its toll.

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Don’t put up with it! Just bloody leave! Time and time again it’s the same thing with so many women on MN. Your husband is awful. Go to counselling and hope he changes or leave.

Terrorised in your own home? Very dramatic. It sounds like you are blowing a petty squabble out of proportion and you seem as bad as each other with you shouting at him and him now not talking. Please do not involve your children in this, you should not be encouraging your son to protect you - whatever that means.

Had to laugh at your DD- very telling! He's not liked that at all and trying to blame you for it. You need to talk to him.

Your 8 year old is then (IMO) pretty cheeky, feeling at liberty to interject in a conversation that was clearly between his two parents

No, he sounds honest. He heard his father make a claim that was blatantly not true and said so. If a child feels that he's not allowed to comment in that way, it's a poor parent-child relationship. A good father in that situation would probably have laughed and acknowledged the child was right, and had a conversation about the daft things people say in the heat of the moment.

Actually, he is attempting to gaslight but being called out on it ... ds called him out on the first one when he said he never raised his voice. You called him out on the second when he said you played the kids off against him.
Gas lighting attempts to give an altered version of reality to the extent that the victim starts to wonder if or believe the perpetrator is correct.
It's mild at the moment but I'd worry that if you go to counselling it will escalate.

Sorry but I find the overuse of "gaslighting" (see also "narcissist" and "bipolar") takes away from actual cases.

This man clearly isn't gas lighting, he's being bad tempered and sharp.

You could speak to a solicitor and find out what would happen if you split. Work out finances and find out how much you would get if that happened.
Suddenly you have the information - the future is not a scary mystery depending on the kindness of someone else (DH) . You can start getting your head round your future.
Then you can tell him what your feelings are with confidence eg either he grows up or you separate or you both need to go to marriage counsellor or whatever.

You did nothing wrong. He sounds like a big child. I’d carry on as normal, don’t give him any attention. If this is him normally, I’d be questioning why I’m with him.

He sounds like an arse.

Sounds very like my exh - the incidents themselves weren't major, but that made them even harder to deal with in a way... if you say anything back, you feel like you are overreacting but if you don't say anything you feel more and more like you don't have a voice.

The only way ultimately is probably to leave, but in the short term it helped me to pretty much ignore every unkind and unhelpful comment; I would just carry on chatting and smiling with dc and not react at all to anything he said. Tricky, but it works and defuses the situation

I wouldn’t reprimand your son either. Good for him for standing up for his mum.

Walking on eggshells? Does that feel appropriate? It sounds like it. (And FWIW I can understand why if you spend your whole home life constantly walking on eggshells you might feel terrorised by the experience. It's hugely damaging.)

Joint counselling with someone who is engaging in abusive behaviours is dangerous and no competent therapist would agree to it. Because he'd use it to misrepresent things, paint you as entirely at fault, get the therapist to endorse his abuse and focus on making you more compliant. He would come away with more power over you and you with even less over your own life.

Abuse is about power and control. It doesn't matter whether people who aren't living in your shoes and have only been shown a tiny sample of your daily life think it counts as being terrorised. It doesn't even matter if you do or do not feel terrorised - that is not the test!

He doesn't have to be engaging in every possible abusive behaviour for him to be abusive. He just has to be engaging in a pattern of controlling behaviour that's having a detrimental impact on you. (Which, by the way, terror or not is a criminal offence.)

When you defend him for being harsh to your son, is your son correct in pointing out he's being harsh? Because if so it's actually really harmful for you to be claiming not to notice and making excuses for the unfair treatment your child is being subjected to.

Maybe take a look at the Freedom Programme course and see if it fits. There is a section on how children are affected, which could also be really useful to you in weighing up what is going on and what you want to do about it.

The group version of the course is free to attend, confidential and they won't tell you what to do or judge you. It's not therapy, just info. There is an online version for a token fee, but if you can get to a group you'll get a lot more from it. Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

The course covers what abuse is, the dynamics behind it (not just a checklist of behaviours), why it happens, the impact it has and also what healthy, imperfect-but-not-abusive relationships look like.

Then you can weigh things up for yourself armed with the knowledge you need to do so.

I would ignore his sulking.
Just go in your daily life as usual with only necessary questions (would you like more chicken when all at the table type of thing) and wait for him to decide talking to you might be a good idea.
Anything else will look like you are appeasing him again.

And yes it looks like emotional abuse. Which then raise another question. What are you going to do about it? Counselling ON YOUR OWN might be a good idea.

I would tell him
"Your sulking and silent treatment is making our lives miserable. I think you need to move out for a little while and get some space and work out what you want"
He will either agree, that space is a good idea to calm down, be shocked and want to talk it out, or fly off the handle and shout it out, which will you give your answer.

Sorry but I find the overuse of "gaslighting" (see also "narcissist" and "bipolar") takes away from actual cases.
This man clearly isn't gas lighting, he's being bad tempered and sharp.

Hardly an overuse when what's happening fits the description. It's important to be aware of this behaviour in order to be able to see through it. Fortunately op is able to see through it, even though, as I said, it's mild at the moment.

I agree with @sparkles07 - he’s sulking. What a man child.
If you have the strength and feel safe enough to call him out on it, do so. In the meantime focus on you and the DC and try to ignore him and remain pleasant. He sounds like a prick btw so unless you want to be dealing with this for a long time some counselling might help. He sounds stressed. No excuse but people don’t behave well under stress.

He's a wanker. You could try just laughing at him and refusing to take the mantrums seriously, but there is a possibility of an abusive, self-obsessed man becoming physically aggressive if verbal bullying doesn't have the desired effect of scaring and upsetting his partner.

Being on edge in your own home is awful OP. You don't have to live like this.
I would see a solicitor and a counsellor (alone) to start disentangling yourself from what sounds like a difficult controlling relationship

they’re Hue ones that DD was changing the colour of for 10 mins

That’s a fair bit different to a disco light. That would irritate the fuck out of me if the entire room was flashing for ten minutes. I’d envisaged one of those toy light set ups not 60 watts of full flashing colour.

He’s still a dick in how he handled it but I’d be pretty grumpy with that too.

He sounds like a proper drama queen !!!

OP you should have told him straight at the time that is his daughter and if he wants the lights turned off to talk to her directly, then left the room.

If you have no job then get one as then it would make it very clear that parenting your joint children is not just your sole responsibility and financially supporting them is not his sole responsibility.

Also go to couples counselling as you both seem to have problems communicating with each other.

The lights would have annoyed me. I'm prone to migraines and flashing coloured lights for no reason when other people are in the room is quite inconsiderate. The lack of full lighting once you put the coloured lights off, would also bother me. So I think you were in the wrong to encourage the DCs to be inconsiderate with the lighting and then snap when DH asked for normal room lighting.
It's interesting that you felt attacked by him calling someone you hardly know a name. You're automatically putting yourselves on opposite sides regardless of the issue and its importance.
He's not gaslighting you but your relationship does seem to have some deep rooted problems.

Start changing the dynamics.
Tell him to grow up and stop acting like a sulking teenager. It’s ridiculous behaviour from an adult. Tell him what it is.
Don’t stand for any of his criticisms and don’t get defensive as it just leads to nowhere. Tell him he’s so predictable and it’s boring listening to his negativity so you don’t want to hear any more and then ignore him.

He had a problem with the lights. Why is it your job to sort it for him?

What's he doing on his phone all the time?

Your 8 year old is then (IMO) pretty cheeky, feeling at liberty to interject in a conversation that was clearly between his two parents

An 8 yr old can recognise a bully and will already be learning to pussyfoot around the bully, especially when they are a parent. Good for the DC for speaking up when the DH was behaving this way.