To ask supporters of porn to read this

[SmileEachDay]

meaww.com/missing-teen-adult-video-pornhub-modelhub-snapchat-periscope

A missing 15 year old girl was spotted in videos hosted by Pornhub. Those of you who are “ok” with porn - are you “ok” with this?

The sentence the man involved in making the videos is for another thread, but is shocking.

SmileEachDay

I don’t get it.

Nor me. It's one thing to be in denial about the amount of abuse in the industry. It's quite another to say 'yeah well, all these other things are abusive as well so I'm going to crack on.'

I don't get it. I don't get how it still turns them on.

There are some fairly strong arguments that regular porn use destroys empathy. Many of the posts on this thread appear to support that.

theconversation.com/how-pornography-removes-empathy-and-fosters-harassment-and-abuse-86643

I don’t get it Because you don't want to get it.

I see plenty of open conversation on this thread with people exchanging viewpoints. What I also see is people who have no interest in other people's opinions or input and just want to stick to their "I'm right, you're scum" opinion.

You are entitled to that opinion if it's genuine (I.e. not saying what you think reflects you best in the moral spotlight) but other people are entitled the theirs.

Churning out the "Anyone who watches porn condones rape" mantra time after time (without even responding to any points that don't reflect your narrow minded view) isn't a conversation it's a slanging match which you believe can be won by being morally puritanical.

PBo83

I see. Well, thanks for that considered response to my post,

From everything that has been posted on this thread and after reading the article, what I am most amazed by is the fact that nobody including the OP is remotely interested in the fact that the girl's own mother was watching porn to find her videos on there in the first place!

But more than one poster has pointed out that you can seek out ethically-produced porn, just as you can seek out other 'unnecessary' but pleasureable goods and services.

I have heard of one misapprehension about ethical porn - that it is has to be fluffy and romantic, and involve nice couples 'making love' in expensive locations (this is claimed to be too boring to satisfy the regular porn consumer by some people on either side of the debate.). This is nonsense - it's not what is depicted that makes a porn film ethical, it's a matter of whether all participants are willing adults being treated with courtesy and respect by everyone involved in the production - and being properly paid for their time and labour.

If you don't want to watch porn at all, that's obviously up to you. But if you would like to but are concerned about the ethics, bear in mind that (as with any industry) the more people pay for the ethical option, the more chance the ethical option has of becoming the mainstream option, which is better for all concerned.

Preggers86

Why would we be focusing on that? As we all keep hearing, watching porn is very normal.

For what it's worth, I suspect that is a very abbreviated timeline. The chances that the mother just came across the right video and found her daughter are very small. More likely that someone else thought "hey, that looks like the missing girl in the posters" and contacted her mother with the details for confirmation.

A-ha.

It wasn't until seven months later that detectives received another tip on the case. The affidavit states that on Sept. 3, the victim's mother contacted authorities and said she had received information that "sexually explicit images" of her daughter had been posted on several websites, including Pornhub and Snapchat.

www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/florida-man-arrested-after-videos-missing-teen-surface-pornography-website-n1072141

There are many, many people working in and around the porn industry trying to ensure that it is safe, ethical and all the rest of it.

What a joke. These "many,many people" care about making the porn industry safe and ethical about as much as Boris Johnson cares about the NHS and Jeremy Corbyn cares about making sure his Party isn't full of anti-semites.

That's ridiculous. While I agree with you about Johnson and, to an extent, about Corbyn, why is it impossible to believe that people can like porn and want to make it safer for participants?

why is it impossible to believe that people can like porn and want to make it safer for participants?

I think you are mixing up the consumers from the pushers.

The consumers (the people you're saying "like" porn) are not invested in nor care less about what they see before them, nor how it gets delivered to them. They only care about the outputs, and blank out the grisly and the unsavoury and kid themselves it's all OK (but not a lot) they just want the means to the end.

These other "many, many people" you say care about making porn safe, are also not invested in anything other than the means to the end to satisfy the consumers.

Nobody involved in generating or consuming porn needs to, or has any heart-felt motivation to care about anything other than the end product.

I'd just love to know who cares... ah that's right, nobody.

“ why is it impossible to believe that people can like porn and want to make it safer for participants?”

I don’t find this remotely impossible to believe. What I find impossible to believe is that the average consumer is in a position to change things except by “voting with their feet”. And even if they are able to do more in terms of advocating or campaigning, they would weaken their position rather by continuing to use porn while they do so.

Incidentally, ReanimatedSGB- what is your involvement with the sex industry?

But more than one poster has pointed out that you can seek out ethically-produced porn, just as you can seek out other 'unnecessary' but pleasureable goods and services

But the eleventy bazillion hits on Pornhub every day tell us people don’t.

Has anyone in this thread posted any details of an ethically-produced certification mark for pornography? I'm not saying there is or isn't a scheme, btw.

Has anyone in this thread posted any details of an ethically-produced certification mark for pornography? I'm not saying there is or isn't a scheme, btw.

Interesting question...I don’t know, but have read articles, watched documentaries on porn in general, including ethical porn like that produced by Erika Lust.

This thread had made me question other products I use (besides porn). I bought 3 tops last week and googled if there might have been exploitation in the production on them - apparently not. Other than the fair trade symbol, is there an ethically produced Certification symbol for all products and services to show no exploitation has been involved?

Here is the list that frosted posted above where exploitation is known to happen.

Coffee

• tea
• avocados
• chocolate
• coconut oil
• furniture
• paint
• electronic goods
• plastic goods
• clothing
• cars
• cosmetics, including natural 'ethical' ones with castor oil as an ingredient
• pretty much anything manufactured abroad in poorer countries actually
• fresh fruit and veg (including that from British farms)
• nail bar services
• hair extensions
• hotels
• restaurants and takeaways
• car washes
• films (of the non porn variety)

...and porn of course. I’d say I use all of those except nail bars (never had a manicure) and car washes (wash my car myself)

As for posters saying those of us who consume porn that we don’t care about abused and exploited women, and we don’t care what we are watching and just want to get our satisfaction....yet again, assumptions, especially when we have continually said that we find abuse in any form reprehensible. As in any industry, including all those named above, not every woman is being abused.

especially when we have continually said that we find abuse in any form reprehensible

And yet when there is a very easy thing you and others like you could do in the absence of any such certification scheme, to send a message that you aren't prepared to take the chance that you are watching abuse and you want porn to clean up its act, you...don't do it.

over50andfab

I’ve posted a thread in AIBU asking for a list of ethical companies. Might cover your list of goods. :)

over50andfab

ethical-company-organisation.org/the-good-shopping-guide

Ethical porn supporters - as you object so strenuously to abusive porn, what do you think you can do to stop it?

current article about child abuse in Japan

as you object so strenuously to abusive porn, what do you think you can do to stop it?

Same any other industry with a problem, campaign for greater regulation.
For me, that would be:

• An end to video uploading sites, all porn paid for and made by regulated companies operating under much stricter rules

• Much more in depth checks as to prospective performers history so vulnerable women (and men) with complex mental health issues and/or a history of abuse are not hired for that line of work

• Far more severe punishments for those found guilty of trafficking (for any industry) and using women in the sex trade

• Far more severe punishments for those hiring/using underage women

• Extensive work and education done from early on in primary school to change the still prevalent sexist views that men love sex and always want it with anyone and men who enjoy sex are normal men and men who have sex with many different partners are 'studs', 'sex gods' etc while women only want sex within a stable relationship, women who enjoy sex are filthy and tramps, women who have sex with many different partners are slags and whores.

Challenge and change the view that men who love sex and have little inhibition about it are just men with high sex drives while women who love sex and have little inhibition are clearly troubled, probably abused.

As if you used Japan as an example against porn!

Japan has LONG had a very disturbing and serious problem with its overall view on women and sex.
It is very much ingrained into that culture and is revolting.

Paedophilia has long been a problem in Japan with 'childlike' pretty much always equalling sexy and desirable, before porn was even really a big thing.

That’s a good and comprehensive list, @frostedviolets. Presumably people should boycott the porn industry until such time as those excellent recommendations are implemented?

I've posted a bit too soon.

Anime has always been huge in Japan, it doesn't use 'real' people so technically there's no exploitation there but it's depictions are almost always childlike.

As if you used Japan as an example against porn!

Japan has LONG had a very disturbing and serious problem with its overall view on women and sex
It is very much ingrained into that culture and is revolting.
Paedophilia has long been a problem in Japan with 'childlike' pretty much always equalling sexy and desirable, before porn was even really a big thing

Yes. And the completely international nature of the Internet means that it can spread across borders. It’s absolutely an argument against porn.

Yes. And the completely international nature of the Internet means that it can spread across borders. It’s absolutely an argument against porn

Japanese porn as always been almost exclusively Anime which are illustrations, usually on paper, so not going to be found on pornhub!

It does not involve real people so in theory no exploitation except that being as it promotes paedophilia it is surely more disturbing than 'regular' porn.

It has always been freely available to those who want it.

The overwhelming majority of the world is absolutely, utterly repulsed by sexual depictions of children and would not watch it even if it were freely available on mainstream porn sites, which it isn't.

Sometimes there are videos depicting incest with ADULT performers and sometimes there are dodgy titles with juvenile terms like 'daddy' in the title, again depicting ADULT performers.

I personally would like to see greater regulation that banned that material along with porn that depicts violence but it is ultimately depicting ADULTS, very different to Japanese porn which most of even the most ardent porn watchers would be utterly repulsed and turned off by.