To feel v upset Mil told 6 year old, 'daddy doesn't love granny' ¡

[Howwlydufeel]

How would you feel in these circumstances.

I'm already very wary of Mil and what she may or may not say to younger dd 6.
Usually they visit maybe 3 times a year and she is with elder sibling. On one visit it seemed like fil took older dd off to one room and Mil took younger elsewhere, which I found odd. So dh asked that they are kept both together.
Then dd would say odd things, eg getting her to bed dd would say ' I love you mummy, I don't love grandma.' When I've not said a word about anything related... Her tone is odd like someone has been saying something like... 'you love grandma more don't you' then in firm answer.. Dd is responding... She would come out with stuff like that.

Dh doesn't get on with his dp he finds them extremely challenging, negative and Mil is just strange, always so negative, the subject, tone.... It's just not pleasant being around her.
So we cut dc visits right down and to less time and usually ask older to watch younger and as said dh asks they are kept together unless they naturally go off to play.. Anyway, for 3 hours younger went alone and this is what she came back saying!

'granny said daddy doesn't love her because he doesn't go round and there and I want a sleepover.'

I never get the impression dd is saying this off her own back re sleepover because the next mornjng i say brightly 'so dd, would you like a sleepover soon' and she says very firmly 'no'..
Fil is pushy salesman and repeats and I've seen him action before putting ideas into their head... 'wouldn't you LOVE a sleepover with granny and grandpops, wouldn't that be fabulous, yeeeeesss, indeedy' and it's the tone of they go along with but once he is out the picture, it they don't want to go.

Years ago both dd had occasional sleepovers and both would return saying... 'please don't send us again'.

If we say, would you like a baby sitter next week or go to gp, they choose baby sitter. If we ever drive past and say to them... Would you like to pop in... They say 'no'.

Pils quite strict, very precious over house, Mil very much in control etc. Very ordered.

I never want them to feel that they can't see their gp. They only have one set. And when they have not seen them for about 5 months, and gp.. Take them out, the children really enjoy that. But they wouldn't want to see them for while after!

I just feel I can't trust her even less than I thought before. Personally I think that's a horrid thing to say to a 6 year old!!

For the record my dream situation would be normal kind people who put gc first and just be kind and happy. I would dearly love the odd weekend away whilst knowing dc having truly lovley time with gp.
It has not worked out for us, we have tried.

Is what Mil said emotionally abusive??

She has said to older dd in the past... 'I can't get toys here for you because I don't see you enough' (at that point they saw them for whole day every 3 months) roughly..

I stopped my dm seeing my dc as minors. As adults they don't hold it against me

Jamon, when I saw my gc a few times a year, I was never left alone with them. They all did things as a whole family.
This having alone time with gc which many mils seem to demand is totally new to me.

Supervised visits (visits with us in the past eg lunch for wider family) is turned by fil into a quest to get them back alone. So I'm not sure supervised would work anyway.

I'm simply not going to ask them anymore if they want to go. Believe me, many times they do say no and that's totally respected.

My older dc doesn't really want to hang around with gp anyway and younger doesn't want to go alone. So that's it really.

Mil can't get past this latest comment, dh heard it and so did a family friend.

And... By the time my dc are older and perhaps open to going there ie gp make contact etc gp will be quite a bit older.

It's not an easy situation and I'm trying to be fair. Or I have tried to be fair. But it's clear now Mil will never ever behave herself and fil is just devoted to pushing her agenda. But they are not easy people to shake off.

But I've never wanted to stop them seeing their only living gp because I can't stand them. People are usually different with their gc than they are with their dils! However in this situation Mil isn't at all pleasant to dh either.

People don't come with Manuel's, you realise stuff as time goes on, it makes you question your own Sanity. The pils arnt obviously awful. Things happen and as pp said the 'conditioning', one thinks... Is it normal to speak like that or are they boosting dc self esteem knowing thier loved and they want to see them a gain?

But then something is said and one thinks... Is that love? Saying that or doing that?

Do the dc have nice days out with pils? Yes. But do they want to sit around the house with Mil... No.

Towel your right. O

Finding this really interesting reading and the strength of most posts that this is clear abuse.

Have a similar(ish) situation with PILs, where a lot of guilt is used. Gifts given ‘so DD can afford to come and visit her GPs on the train’, always seeking to take DD to different parts of the house to where I am or pressuring for time alone with her. Lots of emphasis on how important it is they see lots of her, because children are essential for elderly people’s health and well-being. Lots of anxiety about DDs relationship with my side of the family, counting how many times they held her as a baby and accusing us that it was less than my mother.

So it seems most people see this behaviour as something that children should be strongly guarded against...? How much of a chance do you give? And to what extent is it just over-excited grandparents?!

I wouldn’t want my children to have contact with the ILs based on what OP has posted, but I can completely see how she would be so lacking in the conviction to cut contact. The behaviour is quite subtle and easily excused as love and over-excitement (in my experience anyway)

OP, to be perfectly honest, you're full of excuses. You have 7 pages of people telling you the same thing (which is rare on Mumsnet)- either supervised contact or no contact at all.

You keep replying with weird responses, trying to 'justify' your actions. But not one thing you've said justifies what you and your partner are doing.

Supervised visits (visits with us in the past eg lunch for wider family) is turned by fil into a quest to get them back alone. So I'm not sure supervised would work anyway

Sorry, but where is your backbone? Why can you not say no and if they don't listen, leave? They're your kids, you call the shots. Stop letting your in laws dictate things. Put your foot down.

I'm simply not going to ask them anymore if they want to go
My older dc doesn't really want to hang around with gp anyway and younger doesn't want to go alone. So that's it really.

Seriously? No, what you need to do is talk to your older child and find out exactly why they don't want to go, and then apologise for sending them there when they haven't wanted to go. You need to reassure them and say that they'll never, ever, be expected to go there again. You need to then talk with the younger one and see if they want to go to GP or not. If not, then that's easy. If they do, then you or your partner need to grow up and go with them.

And... By the time my dc are older and perhaps open to going there ie gp make contact etc gp will be quite a bit older.

I think you're obsessed with them seeing them when they're older for all this "money" you keep mentioning. Who gives a monkey's about the money? Your children's health is the priority. If needs be when they're 16 you can sit them down down and explain why they haven't seen GP in x years and give them the option of visiting, but one of you need to go with them if they want to go.

It's interesting how you've spent half of the thread saying how awful PILs are (hence you and partner not going to them/being LC), yet the other half is spent saying 'oh they obviously aren't that bad we just don't like them'. So what is it? Are they awful or not? Seems like they're terrible when people are telling you to go with your kids, but as soon as your kids are going alone they suddenly aren't too bad.

No matter what your kids decide, you and your partner both need to grow up and start acting like parents in this situation. Sometimes we have to do things we hate for our kids, in order for them to have the best life they can and be protected and safe. So, simply put, if seeing PIL is too awful for both adults, then your kids don't see them either. If it isn't actually that bad and you're exaggerating, then one of you (at least) goes with the children so they can have a safe relationship with GP.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh but honestly, OP, you need to stop and listen to what people are telling you on this thread or you're going to end up in the shit. It's okay to make mistakes as a parent, we all have, but it's now time to step up.

Tell DH you see what he means now and agree to quietly become too busy for any more visits to happen.

Purple, mumsnet is fickle on a different day I would have a barrage of abuse because I'm standing in the way of dc and gp. That's why I mentioned the sleepovers to pacify that crowd that we had tried!

Of course today, no one in that tribe is on mn

Pepe it's been mentioned several times we are not interested in their money. I've made it crystal clear we are not interested in the pils giving the money. We have stopped fil putting money into their accounts. You say you have read the thread but I've mentioned that a few times now.

If you can't understand why I'm concerned that an 18 year old maybe lured to pils with the view of receiving quite a large sum of money and then possibly feeling obliged to go there I can't engage with you further.

The point about them being old was, by that time hopefully they will be so much older dc will want to spend less time there than they already do.

Towel we get asked all the time and everytime they are busy bar 3 visits a year.

We, ll just have to bat them off further.

Pepe also I didn't say they weren't that bad at all.
. I said I must be careful not to let my experience and views cloud their relationship with pils... Sometimes awful parents do become wondeful gp, but I think in this case it's a.... Not happening at all.

listen to your children - they dont want to see them so stop forcing the issue

@Purpledog32 what you've put seems different, I wouldn't be alarmed so to speak at that, it might be annoying for you but I don't think seeking to be in different parts of the house to you etc (to me) sounds problematic?
The OP though, I do - she's heard gp's saying daddy doesn't love me (who does that?!) the OP herself says she's done with them. can't be around them, DP on board too, kids saying please don't send me (why would they say that?) and yet she wants them to keep visiting?
It's hard to know and it's a fine line but if it feels wrong, or not quite right, I'd gut listen personally.

I’m a Granny myself and warning bells are going here - playing mind games like this is not to be borne . I’d be extremely wary of any lengthy stays there.

Wotcha they say don't send us back soon after a visit. But serval months down the line, they are OK to go.

Major I agree its not on.

Wotcha they say don't send us back soon after a visit

But why would they say that though? Aren't you at least curious? I would be.

But serval months down the line, they are OK to go
When it's not as recent, they think it's not as bad, and you've asked them if they want to go?

I wouldn’t have any further contact with them and certainly would let the children be with them alone. The separating of the kids is very suspicious. You can’t say that nothing physical has happened unless you were there too. Your father in law sounds very suspicious and the mother is law is a piece of work. Life is too short to have toxic people in their lives.

Purple, mumsnet is fickle on a different day I would have a barrage of abuse because I'm standing in the way of dc and gp.!

I don't think you would. There are threads where posters are moaning that the well-meaning grandparents are giving the grandchildren a bit too much chocolate or plastic tat and need to be reigned in a bit. But this thread is about your PIL trying to alienate your children from you.

Your kids have said to you, repeatedly, that their GP's behaviour is off. You have to listen to them or they wont trust you enough to tell you if anything bad happens later.

If you don't protect your children and model appropriate behaviour then who will?

Wotcha I explained a bit why.
Mil is very precious in her house. Does anyone want to be in a house where they are being watched and monitored in case they damage anything? She has a cleaning obsession. Everything's always about her. Look at my this,. My that. My the other...

They never ask the dc about what they do, holidays, it's always, how was school they don't take real interest in them. Etc ect.

On the other hand, my dc are quite running around dc and it's hard to contain them there so they get away with more than we do.

But I feel uncomfortable there it's a strange environment. Mil is bossing constantly.... Fil panics if anything is out of line.

So with everything else I totally understand why a short visit or better still day out a few times a year is OK but not having To go more frequently.

I'm not pleased what Mil said to dd has been unanimously called abuse, but for me to have dh hear it and a family friend does give me comfort should fil ever even try court.

Anyway, thanks for the posts. I agree with most of them. I'm not sending them back there...

We have issues with my parents and their home which are way milder than these. However, it’s been supervised access for two years between DC and DGP (ie we all spend time together every other month). You have to have balls of steel to stand up to my pair and primary aged children aren’t up to the job!
It’s going to have to be all together or not at all.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis I can imagine as DD grows older similar comments will be made though, ie. ‘why don’t you tell mummy and daddy you love us and want to see us more’. It’s only because they can’t manipulate her because of her age that they’re not trying it, I’m sure.

I currently have to leave the room when PIL are with DD because I find their behaviour with her so overbearing and disrespectful of her space. But I guess it means waiting until a point that she can articulate that she wants space or doesn’t enjoy their company? It seems that before that point parents have to suck it up as love and overexcitement and wait for proof of manipulation . I do find it very strange them taking DD to other rooms or ‘tours of the house’ (our house..where DD lives...even as a very small baby. I can only interpret it as possessive/anxious/exclusionary behaviour - all negative. But again - will just wait till DD can articulate how she feels about all of this

Good on you OP - and honestly - the idea that they could take you to court in your circumstances is so ridiculous... But I feel you may benefit from hearing the same reassurance from your family solicitor.

Enjoy your lovely DDs x

@Purpledog32 if you don’t show your DD what healthy boundaries are how do you expect her to be able to recognise them for herself? If you’re uncomfortable with other people’s treatment of your child but too afraid of offending them to call it out all you’re doing is saying that your feelings and hers are less important.

Herocomplex - I see and agree with your point. That is what I want to do. We have challenged them on their behaviour and asked them to tone it down but the accusation is that I am being precious, damaging my DDs relationship with her GPs, interpreting all their behaviour negatively (when it is actually just overexcited love). It seems that until a child can voice their discomfort, as in OPs case, this type of behaviour isn’t accepted as grounds to limit contact.

It’s why I’ve found this thread interesting, as I see it as a possible glimpse into our future and I can see how different responses are once children can say that they are uncomfortable or don’t feel emotionally safe with people. If I posted a thread with our current situation I imagine I would be flamed for being dramatic and a DIL from hell. It’s so difficult when a lot of toxic behaviour is built up by being subtle, underhand and making people feel emotionally insecure without being able to put their finger on why. It makes any attempts to limit contact very difficult without looking like a controlling nutter

@ Purpledog32 But again - will just wait till DD can articulate how she feels about all of this
That's just it, isn't it - listen to them when they say they don't want to go if you yourself feel uncomfortable around them too, not just say they should go anyway as they're the only grandparents so should - that's the difference and that's what happening in the OP