To feel v upset Mil told 6 year old, 'daddy doesn't love granny' ¡

[Howwlydufeel]

How would you feel in these circumstances.

I'm already very wary of Mil and what she may or may not say to younger dd 6.
Usually they visit maybe 3 times a year and she is with elder sibling. On one visit it seemed like fil took older dd off to one room and Mil took younger elsewhere, which I found odd. So dh asked that they are kept both together.
Then dd would say odd things, eg getting her to bed dd would say ' I love you mummy, I don't love grandma.' When I've not said a word about anything related... Her tone is odd like someone has been saying something like... 'you love grandma more don't you' then in firm answer.. Dd is responding... She would come out with stuff like that.

Dh doesn't get on with his dp he finds them extremely challenging, negative and Mil is just strange, always so negative, the subject, tone.... It's just not pleasant being around her.
So we cut dc visits right down and to less time and usually ask older to watch younger and as said dh asks they are kept together unless they naturally go off to play.. Anyway, for 3 hours younger went alone and this is what she came back saying!

'granny said daddy doesn't love her because he doesn't go round and there and I want a sleepover.'

I never get the impression dd is saying this off her own back re sleepover because the next mornjng i say brightly 'so dd, would you like a sleepover soon' and she says very firmly 'no'..
Fil is pushy salesman and repeats and I've seen him action before putting ideas into their head... 'wouldn't you LOVE a sleepover with granny and grandpops, wouldn't that be fabulous, yeeeeesss, indeedy' and it's the tone of they go along with but once he is out the picture, it they don't want to go.

Years ago both dd had occasional sleepovers and both would return saying... 'please don't send us again'.

If we say, would you like a baby sitter next week or go to gp, they choose baby sitter. If we ever drive past and say to them... Would you like to pop in... They say 'no'.

Pils quite strict, very precious over house, Mil very much in control etc. Very ordered.

I never want them to feel that they can't see their gp. They only have one set. And when they have not seen them for about 5 months, and gp.. Take them out, the children really enjoy that. But they wouldn't want to see them for while after!

I just feel I can't trust her even less than I thought before. Personally I think that's a horrid thing to say to a 6 year old!!

For the record my dream situation would be normal kind people who put gc first and just be kind and happy. I would dearly love the odd weekend away whilst knowing dc having truly lovley time with gp.
It has not worked out for us, we have tried.

Is what Mil said emotionally abusive??

She has said to older dd in the past... 'I can't get toys here for you because I don't see you enough' (at that point they saw them for whole day every 3 months) roughly..

Your kids have made it clear they don't want to go therefore I would not send them there and would certainly not be doing unsupervised visits. If you are in the UK, GP do not have any legal rights/access, so can't take you to court or anything.

The whole thing sounds weird.

Hoping this isn't real

Your children do not have frequent and ongoing contact, if they had a role in the day to day care of your DC’s they might have a case for a contact order.
Obviously I hear what you’re saying about the idea of them taking that option, although there’s little chance of success, would be dreadful.

Gps who have had regular unsupervised access /overnights can seek GPS rights to continue that arrangement...
On here I have read a few cases of them winning. Stop it now op before it becomes too regular. Keep a diary /timeline of dc +gps behaviour during /after the visits.
You yourself don't want to be with them. Why the absolute fook do you inflict them on your precious dc?

Visits supervised by you only or they don't happen. You need to protect your dc, however much you dislike seeing them.

I am gobsmacked that you allow unsupervised access with the gp when neither yourself or Dh like them. Why on earth would you inflict them on your kids when you won't spend time with them yourselves? Either go with them to prevent the gp spouting shite to them, or stop sending them. It's that simple. Even if they brought you to court (which is highly unlikely) you still have to stand up for your kids and not have them influenced by people you don't even want in your life.

OP, this is parental alienation. That's emotionally damaging, and also classifies as emotional abuse.

Listen to your children. Listen to what they are telling you, and take note of their demeaour as they are talking. Trust them. And then consider the message you are raising them with in relation to personal boundaries.

Preserving the biological tie should never take precedence over children's wellbeing. There seems to be a misconception that such relationships should be encouraged and nurtured at any cost.

There are circumstances in which they shouldn't.

You're clearly going to continue a relationship with them so at least stop sending your children unsupervised. Even on days out.

You’re an idiot to allow contact. Just stop it.

Fizzy, the recent visit with one dc alone was really unusual.

They saw themselves both, with eider family members last month. Normally there is a wait in between but this was out of the blue and for about 3 hours.

After the one in every few months visits they normally come back ok.

It's previous past comments that worry me, like the toys and other stuff.

I'd be very happy to never see them again. Nor dc really but it is sad when they are the only set of gp. Dh contact is very low now, very low however I'm not sure he would agree to no contact at all year in, year out.

I know the word narracisitic is thrown around on here, but I do feel Mil is. It's always about her feelings and her.

Even if we tapered out visits, one day our dc will have forgotten about this, visit pils who will seem perfectly normal in a short visit and our dc will say... Why didn't we see the more...

They are abusive weirdos.
Protect your DC from them.

Dh contact is very low now, very low however I'm not sure he would agree to no contact at all year in, year out.

Then you both go too.

I know the word narracisitic is thrown around on here, but I do feel Mil is. It's always about her feelings and her.

Sounds like they are both toxic, certainly.

Even if we tapered out visits, one day our dc will have forgotten about this, visit pils who will seem perfectly normal in a short visit and our dc will say... Why didn't we see the more...

And at that point you explain why to them so they understand.

Even if we tapered out visits, one day our dc will have forgotten about this, visit pils who will seem perfectly normal in a short visit and our dc will say... Why didn't we see the more...

Then you tell them the truth about what things are like now. Isn't it better not to risk them putting horrid thoughts in your DCs head plus everyrhing else, than do things based on a future 'what if'? By that logic they could also grow up to not care that they have not seen a lot of them

I have to agree just cut contact. Your children have already told you numerous times they don't want to see their grandparents but you keep forcing it. That's emotionally damaging too.
And don't ask your eldest to protect your youngest. Your the parent, you protect both of them. No-one wants to see them so don't. As for the extended family, just go and visit them. Simple!

Yes, having only 1 set of grandparents is sad

But when the grandparents are manipulative and toxic - as they are here - it’s better to have no contact than it is to have a relationship just because they’re the only grandparents

And trust me, your dc won’t forget

They would not be left in a room one with my kids ever given how your DH feels going NC seems like the mist sensible option

Marial

I would like to make it clear, when there is a good gap in between the dc are keen to go. They come back reasonably happy.

The flip side of parental 'whatever' is also stopping gc from having a relationship with their gp and wider family. Because we are not fond of the pils.

If I had a family 'base' it would not be in question at all. But these kids, mine, are pretty alone in the world.
A long time ago, maybe 4 years ago we were v low contact and I had a small cancer scare.

That really brought it home to me, if I'm gone, who do they have? Who do they go too if I'm really ill and dh is with with me?

So I instigated slightly more contact ie the visits every few months, which seemed ok, we had one sleepover maybe 2 that didn't go well at all. So definalty stopped that. We learned the more they see pils, the less they want too, so this few months seemed good.

My gut feeling is not to trust Mil and certainly not alone.
The problem is I cannot bear her at all and find being in a the same room tricky, dh would pop round with dc, but he couldn't stop Mil if she wanted to play 'hide and seek' and get dc away that way.

Or another tactic is fil holding us, me or dh with chat whilst Mil goes into another room.

So you send your kids off to visit people that neither of you particularly want to see?

Don't get the logic behind that at all!

Your children would probably feel happier if you went as a family. You say you want them to have contact with their grandparents, maybe sucking it up and all visiting together is the solution, they'd be less likely to talk inappropriately if you're there to monitor what's going on.

Four foxe, and when dc are older and visit dh family... And they say, to the dc

Your poor dad was under control of your mum and she wouldn't let you see us or grandparents?? My dh doesn't talk to his aunts or cousins about his dp or his past issues with them and there is a language barrier!!

My dh isn't very vocal, and certainly not great at putting things straight or explaining!
That's another story.

So you are putting your children into a situation which you, as adults, have decided that you cannot cope with. You cannot stand up these vile people but you expect your children to spend time with them and their manipulations.

Just stop and really think about that.

One of my Grandmothers was an abusive narcissist. After my father cleared off, my mother tried to keep up contact between me and this grandparent (who was her MIL). But eventually it stopped, for my mother's sanity and to protect me.

I met this woman again as an adult and on the third meeting the mask slipped and she started with quite nasty comments about my mother driving my father away etc (all untrue)
I am a bolshy sod and I called her right out on it. But my cousins who grew up around her and her manipulations are all messed up, and have terrible relationships with their own parents. All directly as a result of her mnd games and interference.

I thank the stars that my mother (who is really quite meek and non confrontational) gathered up the strength to withdraw me and shield me from this woman.

Please, please, do this for your own children.

This is the most bizarre thread!

Your DH doesn't like his parents for what sounds like very valid reasons. He wants to go NC. You don't like PIL for same valid reasons and want to go NC. Your two children don't appear to like this couple for very valid reasons and want to go NC.

So why on earth do you keep pushing your kids to have contact?? You leave your children unsupervised around these people because you can't stand to be around them? If you can't stand to be around these toxic people why on earth then would you leave two young children alone with them, especially over night when the children are saying they do not want to stay there? You're doing all of this because you're afraid this couple will take you to court?

Sea, I'm not sure about that.

Mil said at Xmas stuff like ' oh younger dc, so all you got was blah and your sister got amazing gift' said as a joke but I didn't like it.

Or about my other dd 'she's a good actress isn't she', when dd was holding her head after fil threw a ball at it.

Anyway I could go on.

I agree with all posters by the way. But it's not my sole descion and decisions have wider implications too as I said re wider family who have no idea that dh has massively struggled with his parents.

I don't understand at all why you would do this. And especially if you're worried about court-it would be best not to set the precedent of them spending time together unsupervised. And even more so that you are considering them if something were to happen to you or your husband..!