To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

*signal

I’d genuinely be interested as to what we should do.

Not a goady question but if they are economic migrants, what then?

Higginstone but your examples are people making their own choices and arrangements about where to live. Why does anyone need to question it?

That’s different from paying a random third party to sort you out travel illegally.

Just let them in give them the new Forest, let them camp and build structures.
Oh wait, we did this already in the south already, including kent too.
Not sure the ethnic cleansing was such a good idea though, but I guess it means millions through tourism, so more important than people's lives

I'm not saying they shouldn't want to and I don't buy into the narrative that "it's the immigrants to blame for everything bad" but your use of the phrase 'draws them to the UK' makes it sound like they're in the privileged position of making leisurely plans before booking a flight and arranging accommodation - not rolling around in the back of a refrigerated lorry with many others for an extra 1,000 or 2,000 miles and crossing water rather than stopping much sooner in another, much nearer, very nice country.

I absolutely disagree that describing Britain as a ‘draw’ to some makes it sound like a comfortable choice; it’s precisely the horror and hardship you describe that make it important to try to understand why the UK is a draw to some despite the increased risks.

Which very few on this thread can be arsed to even try do, it seems.

@Higginstone. As a White South African, I didn't move to Kenya because I was entitled to a British passport. Many of us have very recent links to Britain, so I don't see your issue.

For example, my mother and three of 4 grandparents were born in Britain and both sides of my family have deep roots here. My South African grandfather on the other side, was seconded to the British navy during WW2 and manned a minesweeper in the Med, protecting your troop ships and your food conveys coming up here. Every small town has a memorial to our troops, that died defending this place. Its similar for many of us Antipodeans.

I think you are wrong, Imgoing. It is perfectly possible for those of us living in poverty to understand that despite being in poverty here they can be more fortunate than those living in poverty elsewhere.

The idea that there is competition for food in this country when the UK throws away nearly 2 million tonnnes of waste food every year is bizarre. Can everyone afford that food? No. But we really aren’t in a situation where slightly increasing immigration to this country is going to lead to food shortages.

I don't have an issue, just pointing out that no one seems to question white people moving halfway across the world when things go tits up or even if they just fancy it, when there are many places closer to their country of origin.

39 people died. That's 39 daughters or sons. That's 39 grieving mothers.

I've heard and read heartbreaking stories about bereavement. A mother's loss is not something I wish to experience. But 39 mothers have lost their sons or daughters. Fuck it if they were economic migrants. They're dead now.

You think those people waved their children off with a wave?

It’s awful minority, really horrendous. I’m just genuinely not sure what the answers are.

Well I probably wouldn't question people with links to Britain returning to the Mothercountry. These are people arriving legally and moving to places where they have cultural, family and historical links. Kenya is also quite a long trip from SA and aside from it being a former British colony, has no relevance to me. And I would need a visa to move there. Why would I do that, when I am a citizen here?

Not sure how this is linked to people trafficking?

Blame the fucking traffickers! Not the dead!
Victim blaming at its finest

What a lot of people on here are saying is, tough thems the breaks and hopefully it will deter others.

Probably the lowest thinking possible. If I get in a bad way, please hope none of these nasty fuckers are in charge of my services. They'd throw me to the wolves.

It's not linked to people trafficking, more to the repeated questions as to why people move to the countries they move to. As an aside, more than a million black Africans fought with the British in world war two and a couple of millions more did forced auxiliary labour consequent to the need for war infrastructure. I guess it's understandable for their descendants to also move to Britain too?

One reason they head for the UK is that if they know any foreign language, even just a little, it's more likely to be English than any other European one.

I agree with you @littlepaddypaws - why don't they claim asylum in eg France or Greece when they arrive there?

@Higginstone, sure! If they have family ties to the UK and are entitled to a passport.

Ah right so risking one's life in a theatre of war is irrelevant then. So why all the detail about your grandad?

There is no evidence yet that they were asylum seekers rather than economic migrants. Economic migration is a complex issue as countries like the US were built on economic migration. I think we need to take responsibility for how western industries plunder these countries, aided by corrupt governments, leaving very little benefit for the local population. Why was Union Carbide in Bhopal, why did Bangladeshi sweatshop workers die when their factory collapsed. Who were the ultimate beneficiaries of their work?

In my view these poor souls died, in part, because rich countries are happy to exploit poorer ones, reducing the opportunities for people to prosper in their own countries.

As for the traffickers, I would throw away the key. They are lucky I am morally opposed to the death penalty.

I was pointing out yet another reason why we might feel and have actual ties to the UK. However, if we ignore his service, he was still entitled to a British passport by marriage. I do think there is a fundamental difference between people who are entitled to be in the UK (and move here legally) and people who aren't (and don't/can't move here legally) That is the whole point of this thread, which is about the horrors of people trafficking and not race.

Actually I think it is tangentially relevant at least. Why should the descendants of a black man killed fighting a war he was ordered to fight in not have legal rights to enter the country he fought for, while descendants of a white man, finding things a little tricky after the collapse of apartheid following decades of benefiting from it, do?

'Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space'

So is everyone who's born here. And many people are also working to provide the needed services: building houses and schools, working in the NHS and in social care, teaching children, working in agriculture to provide food, etc. And many of these people are immigrants - in some of these occupations, a disproportionate number. If our own governments gave more priority, better administration and where necessary more funding to these areas of life, they would be in greater supply.

As for the traffickers, they are worse than scum.