To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

This country is overrun! We can’t let every one in. It’s tragic but they shouldn’t be coming here.

Then commit to having no children @PineappleLumps and tell all your neighbours and family not to breed either as we are overrun apparently

@ You make mass assumptions when trying to justify your horrendously xenophobic, self serving ‘I’m alright’ attitude.
Having poverty in the U.K. is nothing to do with immigration. Immigrant increases the U.K. economy and makes a net contribution to the national coffers.
There are jobs if your children want them - as there were for my children. There are school places for your children, just as there were for mine. What stopped your children training as doctors, nurses, midwives, doctors, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and filling some of the many, many vacancies in the NHS? They’ll be more as immigrant professionals choose to move elsewhere but every trust in the country has vacancies at the moment- despite ‘them nasty immigrants taking all our jobs”.
Go to your local Catholic school and see all the Filipino healthcare workers building communities so that their children get a better life. They’re not stealing anything from you. They are stabilising and adding to the wider society.
I don’t think it’s me lacking understanding. I rather think it’s about you having someone to blame for your own failings. Immigrants are an easy target, aren’t they? Try a no excuses approach to life and you might reap greater advantages.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space

This is a fucking crock of shit. Migrants are coming here and contributing to our economy. They are holding down jobs, making money (or helping others make money off their backs), paying and generating taxes.

If the tories want to hand that revenue to their rich mates, whilst holding their noses and pointing to the brown people, that ain't immigrants' fault.

There is a shortage of space in the South East and some of the midlands, I'll grant you. Plenty of room elsewhere in the country.

What a lot of people on here are saying is, tough thems the breaks and hopefully it will deter others.

Probably the lowest thinking possible. If I get in a bad way, please hope none of these nasty fuckers are in charge of my services. They'd throw me to the wolves.

It’s true though. There were terrible problems with boat people trying to get into Australia and many deaths. They rerouted the boats to Nauru which is safe but not especially prosperous. The boats stopped coming and the deaths stopped.

I actually find your way of thinking a low form and it’s bloody typical of everything that’s wrong with the left wing today.

Lefties seem incapable of dealing with any issue which is not the one standing in front of them at any given moment. No thought for the wider ramifications on the rest of society, usually because the people advocating it have sufficient wealth to cushion them from any negative fall out and problems which are inevitably dumped on the poorest and most marginalised communities to deal with. Oh and then those marginalised communities will get called racist if they aren’t sufficiently grateful for the ‘diversity’ bestowed on them. Hohum.

@Arnoldthecat
"'I'm surprised we dont send boats across to pick them up so that its safer for them to illegally enter this country."
Hmm, because we really want to encourage illegal immigrants, don't we?

I think the people, like these appear to have have been, are transported by organised crime to work in their illegal enterprises, growing cannabis, nail bars (to create a ‘legal’ front). The girls will have been lucky to end up in a nail bar - what do you think happens to attractive, young women when trafficked by these sort of criminals?

There needs to be more checks, everywhere and illegals returned, to deter others

flamed time, itis tragic but these people pass through so many countries to get here, why not stay in one of those ?

Because sometimes they're brought here by traffickers, who don't ask them which country they'd like to go to. Organised criminals in this country traffick slaves to work here.

I think the people, like these appear to have have been, are transported by organised crime to work in their illegal enterprises, growing cannabis, nail bars

Have you any evidence to back this up, or is this just blind prejudice that immigrants are all criminals?

Most people from other cultures are, you know, people. By and large they want to do an honest day's work for a day's pay, have a roof over their heads, meet a partner, bring up a family.

By and large they don't pay to be transported halfway round the world to act as organised criminals. If they did, it would be the largest business sector in our economy.

flamed time, itis tragic but these people pass through so many countries to get here, why not stay in one of those ?

The simplest answer to that is many cultures and nationalities have establish communities in the UK, that they want to join. It's a hangover from (a) us attempting to take over most of the world in the 19th century and (b) our commonwealth friends helping bundle us out during or after the war.

And it's a myth that people universally head here. If you're Francophone west African, you'll probably go to France for similar reasons. Lots of Turks in Germany, lots of Ethiopians in Italy.

Here's a table showing we're well down the list of European states by number of asylum applications, despite being one of the biggest countries:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

Still, why let some pesky facts get in the way of mindless arseholery, eh?

Still, why let some pesky facts get in the way of mindless arseholery, eh?
And why not let a single table in a wiki article be an excuse to throw about pointless accusations?

That table shows we are 5th out of the EU 28 for asylum applications for the period shown. It doesn't have any information on numbers coming here illegally for obvious reasons.

This is a complex issue - one person claiming they have the "facts" and shouting bigot at others doesn't really do it justice.

Why have we become so binary and polarised?

What stopped your children training as doctors, nurses, midwives, doctors, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and filling some of the many, many vacancies in the NHS?

50k of debt? Which I, unlike some people currently living abroad, cannot take on as I have no assets to back it thanks to Britain's housing crisis? I wanted to retrain as a nurse myself when my line of work was destroyed by IT. Fat chance.

Rafals, and yet there are foodbanks and food poverty is a reality in this country. The country's population has gone up 10 million since 1980, 7 million of that since 2000. When will you say enough is enough? What is your limit?

They are not “illegals”. They are people like each and every one of us.

1933 was when the Nazis started publicly using dehumanising language about the Jews. Dehumanising often starts with creating an enemy image. As we take sides, lose trust, and get angrier and angrier. We lose the ability to empathise.

Dehumanisation has fueled innumerable acts of violence, human rights violations, war crimes, and genocides. It makes slavery, torture, and human trafficking possible. Dehumanising others is the process by which we become accepting of violations against human nature, the human spirit, and, for many of us, violations against the central tenets of our faiths.

Dehumanising always starts with language, often followed by images. We see this throughout history.

During the Holocaust, Nazis described Jews as Untermenschen—subhuman. How can we refer to people as ‘Illegals’?

@ ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether But that debt is the same for everyone over a certain income. It doesn’t stop people training as they only pay back once income reaches a certain level. You don’t need assets to back it. It’s not guaranteed. If you move abroad after qualifying, you don’t get to repay it.
That’s an excuse not a reason.

That table shows we are 5th out of the EU 28 for asylum applications for the period shown.

Yes, but we're the fourth biggest country. We are taking less than our 'fair share'.

It doesn't have any information on numbers coming here illegally for obvious reasons.

It's a reasonable presumption that we take fewer illegal immigrants than other EU countries owing to the difficulty in crossing the channel. Do you have any information to suggest that we have more 'illegals' than other EU countries? If not, you're just spouting shit.

This is a complex issue - one person claiming they have the "facts" and shouting bigot at others doesn't really do it justice.

It's not me claiming to have the "facts". These are the Eurostat figures. They may not be perfect but they are the best data available. They are certainly better than the blind prejudice that some posters here are spouting.

And there's nothing complex about simple racism and xenophobia. It's a tale as old as time, and the lengths to which people like you will go to justify and explain away never cease to amaze.

Do you not think that there's a touch of double standards there? Poor people in this country, having to take on 50k debt for a chance at better lives that also benefit many others, why aren't they doing it, they're so stupid. 30k debt from a foreign country for the same chance, awwhhh poor dears, how terrible people are forcing them into such debt.

Student debt is as real as any other. If you move abroad after qualifying, you don’t get to repay it. You have to repay it under the same terms and system as in the UK, unless you are advocating I steal it?

Cherry Pavlova - Anybody trying to come into this country not through the correct channels are not entitled to be here, therefore they are classed as illegal immigrants.

It's a total fallacy, spawned by the Daily fail and its ilk, that asylum seekers head for the UK ahead of other safe countries. In 2015, the UK had 1.82 refugees per 1000 of the population. For contrast, Germany had 3.81, France had 4.13, The Netherlands had 4.89, Sweden had 14.66, Lebanon had 208.91.
List of countries by refugee population

As for illegal immigrants, there are no numbers for those, for obvious reasons. We only hear about the ones that come to the UK of course. It's an issue in most other countries too. It is the people trafficking and drug trafficking rings that they are often entwined with that need to be tackled, not sending boats out to the channel with 'Immigrants go home' banners attached to them.

Do you not think that there's a touch of double standards there? Poor people in this country, having to take on 50k debt for a chance at better lives that also benefit many others, why aren't they doing it, they're so stupid.

I agree that student debt is unfair. You need to take this up with right-wing UK politicians, not poor people from countries thousands of miles away.

And student debt is not a debt like any other. It can be paid back gradually, and in many instances, doesn't get repaid at all. It's a very different kind of debt from £30k owed to a Chinese people trafficker, don't you think? Does the student loans company threaten to kill your family members?

@thedancingbear

You are so full of strawman nastiness I am not even going to attempt to counter your ridiculous assertions.
Of course I don't have any data on illegal immigration and that doesn't mean I am as so so fucking charmingly put it "just spouting shit."

Jesus Christ.

@MrsMaiselsMuff if you’ve passed through places where you are safe then you’re not seeking asylum, you’re an economic migrant. There nothing wrong with being an economic migrant, but it’s not the same as seeking asylum. You are minimising the sufferings of genuine asylum seekers by bring economic migrants into the issue.

It's a total fallacy, spawned by the Daily fail and its ilk, that asylum seekers head for the UK ahead of other safe countries. In 2015, the UK had 1.82 refugees per 1000 of the population. For contrast, Germany had 3.81, France had 4.13, The Netherlands had 4.89, Sweden had 14.66, Lebanon had 208.91.

There's no point in trying to convey this information mate. I've already done so and have been told it is made up.

This is frustrating on one hand, but does help underline that racist and xenophobic attitudes have no real factual grounding. These people have their own imagined reality - it's palpable on this thread.