To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

Rafals or maybe that I can see reality and far too many people in Britain are enormously privileged and never see it? I come from a poor background. It means I know the reality of life, the reality of needing food: the reality of knowing that other people are competition for living space. I've had to work with middle-class people all my life. They live on another planet, even while they're standing there telling me all about how fortunate I am to have them taking my hard-earned money off me in exchange for nothing that they would accept for their dog, because they could get some English-speaking immigrant packed 10 to a room in instead.

...what I personally want is that my children grow up with an awareness of the wider world and an understanding of what might make people leave their homes and families to enter the UK illegally. I want them to understand their privilege in the wider world and be compassionate, welcoming adults who value difference with a desire to understand different cultures, religions, customs and traditions. I want them so try speaking different languages, eat different food, and have enduring friendships with everyone and anyone. I also want them to understand that what we have in this country - the long history of democracy, a healthy economy and welfare state - is something that could potentially disappear overnight and that it might be them some day seeking refuge in another country.

I'm poor as fuck in the 'full up' SE and still feel like this, and am raising my child to have this ideology also. People on this thread saying it's only rich people who have tolerant attitudes - but I've found it is usually (some, by no means all, thankfully) older people who have this mentality of being something special and deserving of a better life than somebody who was unlucky enough to be born in a different country. Thought us millennials were supposed to be the entitled ones

@JellyfishAndShells I didn't say they dump them anywhere. I said they'll dump them wherever the trafficker will make most money.

@littlepaddypaws just wandering who I should blame for the three week wait for a GP appointment , the lack of school places and long waiting lists for NHS care and the recent rise in crime in my area. It's certainly not immigrants - hardly anyone from an ethnic minority group lives in my little town in the South East. Those that do are working hard and paying tax like everyone else. So who else can I blame but the Tory government?

Not al slavery victims come via road, either.
Many European slaves come by plane, legally, and are then "taken" to their accommodation and work.

Is it easier to work illegally in the UK compared to Europe? This is something Europeans often claim. Where is a good study to answer that question.

The 39 people just found dead in the lorry were illegal migrants. They weren't asylum seekers. I think it's doing a disservice to asylum seekers to make them sound like they have same reasons as economic migrants.

There was a good interview, cut way too short, on BBC this morning ?World Service?, about what the illegal migrants end up doing for work. 65% are men & boys. They mostly end up being trained to work in nail bars or on cannabis farms (in UK). Some of the women will become sex workers. Most travel on illegal documents... The speaker talked about them deliberately destroying passports when they landed in European airports and then claiming they were under 18 so they could get released into the community. Without getting rid of their economic opportunities, they will keep coming. So HOW are they not being detected, why are there still so many opportunities?

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing, healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space

This has to be one of the most depressing load of rubbish I have ever read on here. Why is saying something.

Only idiots fall for successive government's strategy of trying to convince the everyman that their natural enemy is someone with nothing to their name whilst massive corporations make chess-like moves to control our politics for their own gain.

A refugee is not competing with anyone for a job. Multiple moves to cut wages, reduce workforces, spend as little money as possible to make huge profits is what threatens jobs. Not someone trying to feed their kids.

A refugee is not competing with anyone for health care. Systematic under investment so that health capitalists can slowly dismantle the NHS to move us all to a private model are what is threatening universal healthcare. Not someone so malnourished all their lives they suffer repeated illnesses.

A refugee is not competing with anyone for housing. Constant selling off of stock without the investment to replace it, along with back handers from massive building companies to allow slack regulations and substandard houses to be built (that won't last) threaten that. Not 6 people crammed into a one bed flat with damp.

A refugee is not competing with anyone for energy. 65% of all energy consumption is commercial and industrial.

A refugee is no more competing for space than anyone else. The vast majority of planning permission in the UK is granted to overseas companies and a massive 50% of all UK land is owned by 1% of people.

If you are worried about losing all those things then at least take a few minutes to properly educate yourself on who is actually sucking them up so that you cannot.

Hermione - that meme makes a valid point and makes a lot of sense for skilled jobs and people who have a number of opportunities available to them, but there are plenty of British people without skills and qualifications, often without a high level of academic prowess or who slipped through the educational cracks, for whom the only work available is, frankly, work which requires a basic functioning body and nothing else.

They're probably the sort of tasks that they would design robots to do, but the bottom line of designing, building and maintaining the robots might actually cost them more than paying high-turnover, minimum-wage staff.

If you're a senior blue-chip management consultant whose livelihood is at risk from a recent refugee with no schooling or knowledge of English, then, yes, you ARE shit.

But if you keep your family just above the breadline by packing biscuits into boxes at a factory, I can see how you would see anybody from anywhere in the world who is willing to do your job, maybe for an even lower wage, as a threat to your family's continued survival.

I don't think it's fair to describe unskilled people who earn their families' living in this way as 'shit'.

making judgy comments on the internet @MrsMaiselsMuff

Why ? because someone doesn't agree with you that we let all and sundry come into our country ? Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter .

A refugee is not competing with anyone for a job. Multiple moves to cut wages, reduce workforces, spend as little money as possible to make huge profits is what threatens jobs. Not someone trying to feed their kids.

The net, real, practical, pragmatic result is that people are already in competition for living space, food, housing and basic life requirements here.
It does not matter who you care to blame.

That is the reality.

The same reality that says Britain can only feed 40-50 million, there is more than that here already, and we have depleted soils and food slowly but steadily decreasing in nutritional value, with jobs being hoovered up by IT.

Sort it out first before you - general you, not specific - have the sheer gall to tell our poorest that they should have even less while you - general you, not specific - zooms around on planes and fancy cars making us and the entire world all choke on your fumes.

Boysey45 - It's important to know the difference between its and it's as well!

Well said missb.

WeBuiltThisBuffet - That's a very good point you make.

@Dissimilitude I couldn't agree more. Confusing these two issues is a major reason for the poor treatment of genuine asylum seekers.

The net, real, practical, pragmatic result is that people are already in competition for living space, food, housing and basic life requirements here.
It does not matter who you care to blame.

That is the reality.

The same reality that says Britain can only feed 40-50 million, there is more than that here already, and we have depleted soils and food slowly but steadily decreasing in nutritional value, with jobs being hoovered up by IT.

Sort it out first before you - general you, not specific - have the sheer gall to tell our poorest that they should have even less while you - general you, not specific - zooms around on planes and fancy cars making us and the entire world all choke on your fumes.

-----------

This is all true.

It's hardly racist to acknowledge that resources are finite. We can agree to do more, but it's impractical to not have some kind of immigration controls in place in a modern welfare state.

Could be either the torture cutting funding for services or it could be services are still receiving the same level of funding but demand has increased. If that’s due to immigration it’s not racist to say so ! It’s racist that this is ignored and additional funding and resources not pumped into those areas needing it

There’s enough money for everyone to have all they need. Supply and demand
It’s the governments fault. They like to sit back and watch people turn on each other though and then they get away with it. It’s far easier to blame the people ahead of you in a queue that you can see than those in their second homes claiming expenses and laughing at us

torture -tories 🤣🤣🤣

*june2007 Sat 26-Oct-19 11:18:24

Actually germany have taken a lot of refugees...*

But often only in the medium term. Many refugees claim asylum in Germany, work and live for years, obtain EU citizenship and then come legally to the UK. I worked in an inner city London school and that was the route to the UK for many pupils. I wasnt even aware that happened.

How much wilful ignorance there is in Britain of how the other half of the population live, how much hypocrisy from the middle class rich and how little care they have for their fellow humans right here

You don’t think it’s possible to have an understanding of what is going on for the poor in this country whilst at the same time having a broad understanding of what it is that puts people in the backs of refridgerated containers thousands of miles from home?

Genuine asylum seekers or economic migrants ....

Tbh if you’re that desperate you leave your family and travel thousands of miles in horrific and dangerous circumstances just to have a better life then I consider that a heartbreaking situation. It’s not like they could have had a decent life or they wouldn’t have risked it. ‘Economic migrant’ just sounds like someone who thinks ‘oh I could do with a break for a few months, see the world, earn a bit more then come back ‘ the reality I suspect is different

Ffs why does anyone go anywhere rather than someplace else? Why did white South Africans come to live in the UK when their cosy little system of oppression no longer worked for them, rather than just hop over to Kenya? Why do Australians do similar, travelling across the world, rather than move to Fiji? People do what works for them. This isn't news. And these are people who aren't trafficked and do actually have many choices but no one questions that.

We refused to get involved with Merkel’s free for all and instead took in 25,000 of the neediest refugees per year from the camps around Syria the NGOs on the ground had identified as vulnerable (eg sick children, ex sex slaves, torture victims, persecuted groups like Christians and the Yazidi).

This also means we can help more people in the camps with better aid because the cost of feeding clothing and housing one migrant in the U.K. can support far, far more people in the camps.

We have had astonishingly few incidents of issues in comparison to say Sweden or Germany which is probably because vulnerable people and families with children are a lot less likely to cause problems than fit and healthy young adult males who are angry, bored and resentful the roads are not paved with gold etc. Locals and the refugees from Syria here seem to have experienced low levels of problems from either side.

Even Merkel has said our approach was superior and should be adopted in future.

Bleeding heart Liberals are just useful idiots for human traffickers. I believe those bleeding hearts are partially responsible for a great deal of human suffering which is invisible so they don’t care about cos it doesn’t give them an opportunity to virtue signalling.

@ExhaustionSIeep, asylum seeker is a legal term, with specific requirements. If any person with a shit life could qualify, it would be meaningless. There would be no upper limit to arrivals. Its sad that people have hard lives and that is a reality for most people in this world but if we didn't control our borders, we would also be in a similar situation.