To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

But who is the judge of that?

AutumnRose1 It’s common sense. You wouldn’t wear printed trousers with a printed top for example.

NotStayingIn
I think she would work out the non ironed thing, but on the wider styling she may not be aware.

I'm sure that the people I work with who are in the team 'any black office trousers and any shirt/blouse' probably think they look smart but they look like they cba.

Posters talking about money etc seem to be missing the point. It's possible to buy clothes that fit on a budget. My work trousers cost me £15 in H&M they get worn with a range of nice tops and blazers, all interchangeable and affordable. Many of my work tops come from charity shops. I do spend the money on shoes because I'm on my feet all day. eBay is also good for workwear bundles on a budget.

hearts oh I see.

But OP has said white shirt/blouse and black trousers. So let's assume the shoes don't have cartoons painted on, and it sounds like it's all good.

Loops ..they sound sad if they're that concerned about their appearance. Why does it mean the Op would stand out for not fussing about with plastic fucking nails ?

Lola would you judge a man in a white shirt and black trousers?

All this "cba" - if they are in business attire, it's all good, surely?

If you are wearing white, is your underwear visible? I used to wear a white bra for school and now I look back it shines blindingly in photos.

But OP has said white shirt/blouse and black trousers. So let's assume the shoes don't have cartoons painted on, and it sounds like it's all good.

AutumnRose1 Nope. Not all good if she hasn’t bothered to iron them and they don’t fit properly.

would you judge a man in a white shirt and black trousers?

I would if they were unironed and ill-fitting.

This is nonsense we would never speak about how well fitted a man's shirt is or does he look like he's made enough of an effort! Plenty of senior male managers wear ill fitted suits - it's bullshit that women have to be competent and "stylish"

Sounds like a crap company culture

they sound sad if they're that concerned about their appearance

That's really judgemental in itself though.

I'm a senior client facing professional (wankery alert) think I'm relatively intelligent and I'm only sad in some people's eyes but I like look good within reason (aforementioned laziness). I don't think anyone else should have to dress in the same way as me but I don't think it's sad to take enjoyment (for me) in how I look.

I’d certainly judge a GP with gel nails as it’s a major infection control issue! But health professionals aside nobody else should be judged for their nails as long as they’re clean.

This thread is so fucking depressing. I’m just here to add my voice to those already saying it’s a damn shame that women are required to doll themselves up for the workplace in 2019.

@AutumnRose1 and @Glacecherrychops I meant that I didn't want to wear the same pair of trousers every day especially when they're basically a step above yoga pants in style. My work has a 'business' dress code. I don't think my trousers are business style but I can't currently afford to get a more fitted style. They are however super comfy with a lovely elasticated waist, I would much rather wear them than fitted suit trousers. I have nothing against wearing trousers to work, they are in fact my preferred choice as my fat thighs are prone to chub rub wearing tights/dresses.

LolaSmiles

My hair is recently cut, greying, clean and brushed. I don't wear jewelery or make up.

Would you in a managerial roll seriously tell me to ''style'' myself? In an office role? Do you think that's a managers job?

Also, if wok want a certain uniform they can damn well pay for it. These are peoples personal clothes not PPE.

I have a pair of black size 9 brogues from Hobbs. I thought they were in fashion at the moment. They could very easily be men's shoes. I'm short and fat and have big wide feet.

I agree the OP has to find out what exactly the issue is. If it's that her management expect her to wear frilly blouses and that's not her style, the management are being unreasonable.

hearts if what you mean was creased and the wrong size, you could have said that.

As a matter of interest OP, in trying to get to the bottom of the comments made by your boss, how would you describe your weight, bmi etc?

Only asking this because there was a thread recently where a very capable employee was being discrimated against on weight grounds.

As an aside I didn't know so many industries were still so formal. I work in tech and the CEOs wear jeans and tshirts. DH works for one of the most influential companies in the world and wears tracksuit bottoms some days!

Lola would you judge a man in a white shirt and black trousers?
If it's poorly fitting and he looks like he hadn't bothered to make an effort then yes, if the workplace norm was professionally presentable.

I've given examples all the way through this thread of how men and women can look like the cba in the workplace.

For me, if the norm is casual then great. If the norm is more polished professional then great.
What I have an issue with are situations where men are expected to be in a suit and groomed and then a minority of women complain about being held to a similar standard (like my examples earlier).

furiosa
Absolutely not because your hair colour, lack of jewelry and make up etc doesnt matter at all in terms of being polished and professional looking.

All the way through this thread I've said it's not about hair/makeup / being girly etc.

With the OP's situation, I think it's a bit much to assume straight away that it's lack of heels and makeup that's the issue (and I'm someone who doesn't do heels and makeup). It could be a manager is out of their depth and overstepping the mark on pushing femininity, but it could equally be a case of someone not looking put together or like they've made an effort. None of us can say either way.

These are nice and come in size 12 www.longtallsally.com/shoes/shoes/karl-lagerfeld-paris-nikki-loafer-shoe-16AF094/p?option=16AF094WIN

Purple, my bad, apologies

I agree you have to find put details. from the top of my head

• some women in my office like a more maskulin style way of dressing (brogues, shirt, trousers, no makeup). they always wear a blazer with it and the shirts are ironed, and no bras on show
• another group (me included) doesn’t wear heels and very little makeup. my clothes fit well (dorothy perkins for me, so not expensive at all!) and i make sure it all goes together
• some do the “high fashion” style with loads of everything. can look great, or silly

hearts if what you mean was creased and the wrong size, you could have said that.

AutumnRose1 I did In my very first post on this thread (and several subsequent ones):

You could be wearing the right clothes but if you’re not wearing them correctly ie. they’re ill fitting, unironed,

That’s exactly what unironed and ill fitting means: creased and the wrong size.

If you’ve worked there a fair length of time, why the comments now? Personally I think he’s a misogynist, stop ripping the OP apart; some nasty outdated comments here from WOMEN 😡
I dress smart/professional; never wear skirts and am regularly complimented on my appearance, trousers look very smart if well fitting and with a smart top and jacket, I wear brogues or heeled ankle boots, no need for tight dresses and 3 tonne of slap.
OP get back in and ask this twat to clarify what he’s slavering about.

Tech is notoriously casual though. It's bloody wonderful.

One of the most awkward conversations I ever had in the workplace was this. I got the treat as I was the most senior woman available. We were professional and client facing and my colleague was a shambles. All the elements individually were fine in principle but she looked like a student...think long sleeved tshirt showing from under edges of slightly baggy jumper with ill-fitting black trousers. And no, the gents would never have got away with the equivalent.

I, FWIW, never wear any make up. Never prevented me being considered a serious professional.

But nobody can tell OP if it’s this or sexism!