To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

Grief ! I must be back in the early 1900s.

You haven't said this, but so many basic people thing of all makeup as being heavy when really they are being judgemental because they think they look great with lip balm (they rarely do).

I do not understand this sentence. Can some kind personage translate for me?

I'd start wearing a suit or a jacket with the trousers. That'll smarten you up a bit without having to resort to makeup and heels.

I don't buy clunky men's shoes because there's no reason to.

Maybe the OP buys them because she wants to. If they are clean and polished then they will be smart. Perhaps not 'feminine' which I suspect her manager is getting at. Which is ridiculous.

Are your clothes clean, ironed and well fitting?

Just asking as I had an appointment with a female consultant and she was dressed in "smart clothes" blouse and trousers but her clothes were not ironed and heavily creased and she had scruffy shoes so she overall looked quite unprofessional despite dressing "professionally".

Second all the PPs who have said email and ask for clarification of your meeting via email in writing, as he may be genuine or his complaints rooted in sexist ideals of what a woman should look like dressed for work if you are genuinely well put together just not to his taste.

You are probably NBU to suspect what the manager was alluding to. I agree with the advice to ask them for specifics in writing.

Or you could try adding a tank top! (but you probably look just fine as you are).

@RumpoleoftheBaileys I wholeheartedly agree. It appears that there are a good deal of posters who think the OP should pretty herself up.

Also, I've never had a comment deleted before, so fuckwits, crack right on.

The Gary Lineker of Mumsnet. 🤩

Even Taylor Swift wears flat brogues! Though there's a probably a bunch of trashy media complaining about that too.

@INeedMoreCats @RumpoleoftheBaileys Well said, agree with every word.

I think I would ask a good friend for some gentle honest feedback. Maybe check out the ladies who mentioned places to get reasonably priced size 12 women's shoes. I wonder if your shoes look obviously a man's style, with possibly looser fitting trousers and a plain shirt, you might just not be hitting the required dress code. The individual clothing items might work out okay if styled slightly differently though. So looser trousers with low heals or smarter brogue style shoes. Or the plain shirt dressed up with a scarf/jacket. Add a necklace and earrings?

I'm probably also not quite hitting the mark at work, but I've only been in post a month and didn't have the money to buy lots of new clothes. I'm wearing some baggier black trousers but wearing my low kitten heals with them to smarten them up a bit. I then have a loose flowery top with a smart colourful cardigan. I plan to buy smarter tailored trousers in the next month or two. In the meantime, 3 times a week I'm wearing a dress with black opaque tights. I'm not so comfortable in a dress but I don't want to take the mick with the trousers. No one has said anything and I'm making an effort with my hair, make up and jewellery.

All of you saying to the OP 'can't you just dress a bit smarter, wear heels, not men's shoes, wear make up, are your nails clean and shaped, try to fit in so you can get promotion' etc, this is 2019 not 1919. You are part of the problem that things haven't moved on.

Abso-bleeding-lutely. Brilliant post needmorecats.

Don't you have to be working at Vogue for this to be an issue?

AutumnRose1 No. as I’ve already stated repeatedly, it’s not about makeup, heels or dresses.

Wearing clothes well just means making sure they’re ironed, that they fit you, that they match.

If you just throw on anything with no thought, don’t bother ironing or even checking that they go, you are not adhering to a presentable dress code. And this goes for men too.

Quite frankly I'm gobsmacked at some of the replies on here. A white shirt with smart black work trousers is fine.

My nails are clean and tidy, but I never have them done, and I wear minimal make up.

A white shirt with smart black work trousers is fine.

Not if they aren’t ironed or they don’t fit they’re not.

Purple "I'm not so comfortable in a dress but I don't want to take the mick with the trousers"

Are you posting from the 1950s? 😱

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't expect anyone to have to wear make up (unless they want to). I think it's bad for non makeup wearing people to judge those who (do as in this post). I also don't think it's right to force people.

For what it's worth, I fall into the non-makeup wearing camp.

Hearts "checking that they go"

But who is the judge of that?

Purple "I'm not so comfortable in a dress but I don't want to take the mick with the trousers"

Are you posting from the 1950s? 😱

I took this to mean she didn't want to wear the same pair of trousers every day?

Purple also suggested "women's" shoes though.

Ha g in, we've covered clothes but what about hair? Is it clean, brushed, styled?

Size 12 shoes is huge! It's bigger than most men's sizes. My husband took 12 and I had to carefully source shoes for him, not everyone goes up that far, usually stops at 10 or 11 for a man.

7-8 is considered big for a woman.

Such a helpful contribution Bluerussian. I bet the OP had no idea she had big feet until you pointed it out

OP what you’re wearing sounds fine. It’s not my style but it’s unobjectionable. Potential things to check:

• no animal hair
• no smell of smoke/BO
• fabric not bobbly/faded
• clothes not horrible creased
• no deodorant/sweat stains
• blouse not gaping

Thinking about the poster who said "He wants you to look as if you've made an effort" - do I really work more effectively if I've spent an hour getting ready instead of half an hour?

Horehound what do you mean by "styled" please?

Also completely agree with needmorecats. We seem to have stepped backwards at least 20 years if so many people on this thread seem to think the OP needs to "prettify" her wardrobe in order to do her job. Thoroughly depressing and shines a light on the increased focus that seems to be put on appearance these days. Slightly off track, but if you look at TV news footage from the 90s, it is striking how much more "natural" most women look.