To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

Good god, the outdated attitude towards women's workwear that some people have is appalling! In my world, clothes should be clean, free of holes and should fit the wearer. Shoes should be clean. People should be clean and not smell. Anything above and behind that is entirely up to the individual. Men wear trousers and a shirt to work with flat soled shoes. It should be perfectly acceptable for women to wear the same.

If you're sat in an office all day and have no contact with clients, I honestly don't see why it matters what you wear. Surely people work better when they feel comfortable and able to be themselves?

@maddening
£120? Not necessarily in everyone’s budget 🙄

This has got to be a wind up, no wonder our employer is complaining, get a grip and dress smartly.

I'd buy a couple of different (mens?) tailored suits to wear or a few blazers and be done with it. No need to swap your shoes, if they are smart, polished and on your feet they do not need to be "womens".

Hearts you said this "You could be wearing the right clothes but if you’re not wearing them correctly ie. they’re ill fitting, unironed, mismatched, worn inappropriately etc. etc. you are not presentable. And the men’s shoes further reinforces this."

Which isn't the same, and also you seem to have an issue with the brogues. Or are you now to going to say you guessed they were not clean?

A new boss wanted us to all look more professional. In his opinion, that meant wearing a suit like jacket. Simple and you only need a couple.

As for size 12 shoes, the OP is going to struggle big time to get anything less masculine, especially with wide feet. Mine are 9 wide and I have to shop online and pray. I’m sick of buying shoes that, when they arrive, don’t fit.

Unfortunately that could be the case some employers still think women should pretty up for them.

But it also could be you look unprofessional, obviously I cant say without knowing you but in my old workplace not everyone wore make up etc but this one woman had squeaky shoes, a blouse that was ill fitting and barely ironed, trousers that were dragging across the floor and would shuv her hair up In a bun with stray hairs everywhere. It did not look professional at all, the no make up wasn't the problem. If I were you i wouldn't start wearing make up and dresses but maybe look at the finer details.

@AutumnRose1 no worries. It has made me think about inequality though and whether there is an expectation in my work place that women should be smarter and better groomed than the men. I don't think so though, but it's a worthwhile thought and something I would definitely think of now should my trousers get me called into the boss' office.

Jesus Christ there is some horrendous internal misogyny on this thread.

OP, make sure what you wear is ironed, and fits you. Add a blazer /suit jacket so that your dress mimics the male dress code. Email hr and your manager to say that having taken on feedback, you will now be wearing a jacket, and hope that this meets the requirements of the dress code. If it ever gets mentioned again, ask in writing for the objections he has to your manner of dress & specific things he feels that you need to do to meet the dress code. Cc HR into everything.

Buy whatever shoes you fucking well want to.

Is there any complaints about the work you are doing ?? If not - then ignore the manager. You are following the rules - if they don't think your image is correct then that is their problem for not being specific in their rules !!

Just to clarify a few things,
My shirts/blouses are always ironed. And no they aren't always white either, I have some in other colours, I just needed a picture so you could see the type of thing I wear. I don't think they are ill-fitting and you can't see my underwear through them.

Shoes- some of the shoes people have suggested are lovely but not in my budget at the moment. Tbh I don't see why I need to wear 'women's' shoes, as I would be getting the same thing I already have, at probably triple the price. Once my current shoes have worn out though I might look at saving up for some from longtallsally, they are rather nice!

You don’t need to wear men’s shoes. That would probably look a bit ridiculous. Flat brogues fine, but men’s work shoes no. Is it a tidy well fitted shirt and pants? Or a cheap I’ll fitting one? We had a lady at work who wore suits and always looked terrible. Cheap suit material, didn’t fit well,

Good god, the outdated attitude towards women's workwear that some people have is appalling!
I agree in places. Especially comments about fake nails etc.

I don't agree that it's outdated and sexist to expect male and female colleagues to demonstrate a comparable level of smartness and professional attire though.

If men are accepted in whatever shirt and trousers then it's reasonable to accept women in a whatever black trousers and shirt/top.
If men are expected to be properly suited and groomed then it's reasonable to expect women to dress in a similar level of smartness e.g. well fitted trousers, jacket etc.

As another poster said, without being in OP's workplace none of us can say if it's sexist nonsense or whether it's a reasonable bit of guidance to smarten up (remembering that smartening up doesn't mean become very stereotypically feminine with heels and make up)

LolaSmiles glad to hear it but you did say:

on the wider styling she may not be aware.

I'm sure that the people I work with who are in the team 'any black office trousers and any shirt/blouse' probably think they look smart but they look like they cba.

It's a job not a fashion show. As long as they CAN do the job who the hell cares about the colour of their clothes or how they ''style'' themselves. Let alone their manager?!

Autumn, sorry if I have missed it but I am not sure that OP confirmed she was wearing brogues, only men's shoes.

Heart's point could still stand that the shoes don't go with the overall outfit or are insufficiently smart for the workplace. We're all guessing and assuming here because OP has given vague information.

OP your update confirms what I thought.

I would email the manager and ask for specifics on what the issue is. I reckon you might get no reply as it will force them to think about what they are saying.

The shoes I have are literally plain men's lace ups in black. You can get basically the same thing in the women's department, only smaller.

Also, for all the posters claiming men would be judged on not wearing clothes that are smart, well fitted, with well groomed hair etc... Boris Johnson is the bloody prime minister. Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the opposition. One looks like three children stood on each others shoulders wearing their dads suit and balancing a mop on the top, the other looks like a dishevelled geography teacher from the 1970s. Their lack of sartorial elegance hasn't seemed to have a negative impact on their career progression.

I don't think there's any point speculating - email requesting clarification& ask if they'd like you to

Wear a different style of clothes/shoes
Change your hairdo
Wear makeup
Add accessories
Paint your nails

Etc or is there something else & could they be specific about it. I'd also record any conversations if they ask you in to talk again.

I don't iron anything btw but carefully shake it & dry it over the radiator as soon as the wash finishes. I think that's sufficient. Although I no longer work in an office environment

Furiosa
That was poor phrasing on my part.

I wasn't meaning styling as in fashion shows or being glam. I was meaning that it's easy to think "office uniform = black trousers and top" which can cover a range of outfits, some look polished and professional but others look a bit scruffy and cba.

That's what I was meant with styling. It's not a manager's job to have to style someone in their image, but sometimes it's reasonable to suggest someone smartens up if that's the workplace norm.

You don’t need to wear men’s shoes. That would probably look a bit ridiculous. Flat brogues fine, but men’s work shoes no.

Why on earth would they look ridiculous? Men wear them and they look like office shoes ... I strongly suspect they look the same on OP.

I think makeup and dresses are irrelevant here.

What sort of men's shoes are they? If they're like the ones that I've attached, they'll look disjointed with the rest of your outfit.
As much as that sounds ridiculous, clunky shoes (polished or not) don't contribute to a professional overall look.

Are your trousers overly baggy? Is your shirt oversized, discoloured or gaping?

Is your hair wildly frizzy? Do you wear it up in a neat pony or bun?

Do you have dirty, unkempt nails?

Whilst these are about personal appearance, it's not sexist to ask that an employee ensures their hair looks tidy, clothes fit suitably and that they look clean.
This goes for men and women alike.

It could just be a case of getting a new style of blouse or trouser, buying some shoes that fit the silhouette of your outfit and making sure your hair is out of your face and neat.

My work trousers cost me £15 in H&M they get worn with a range of nice tops and blazers, all interchangeable and affordable.

But maybe people think you don't look smart, but just aren't saying it to your face! All the people on here offering the OP style tips may be no better dressed themselves, they just think they are. That is the point. There are so many different variables as to what is smart. Your idea is no more valid than op's or any else.

The OP has already explained the shoes are plain lace up shoes.

Is your hair wildly frizzy?

What does that have to do with anything? Some people have naturally curly hair, black people for example. Is it unprofessional to have a certain type of hair?