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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

676 replies

Name1Changer123 · 25/10/2019 18:41

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

OP posts:
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queenbodenica · 25/10/2019 20:07

Probably easier if you post a pic so we can see.

Basketofkittens · 25/10/2019 20:07

Many people in low wage jobs can not afford well fitting, chic clothing and may have to shop in Primark. Maybe OP can not afford smarter clothing, nice make up and hair cuts.

C0untDucku1a · 25/10/2019 20:07

@NotStayingIn i think people have already said the workplace is probably being sexist, but heres how to make sure you look newt and professional, now ask for clarification in an email and cc in HR.

People arent saying it is op’s fault. The thread has covered everything

MoreMoneyPlease · 25/10/2019 20:07

Thank god I work in a (very professional and, yes, we meet clients) environment where people are judged on their work and not their appearance. Jeans and trainers are the norm at all levels, most women don't wear make-up and I don't think I've ever seen anyone in heels. Don't think I'll be changing jobs anytime soon.

ElizaDee · 25/10/2019 20:08

Funny how appearance and the effort you make matters on this thread and not the ones about wearing pyjamas out of the house.

inappropriateraspberry · 25/10/2019 20:08

That picture is a shirt, not a blouse. We def need more information/pictures of the trousers and outfit. Agree with others that the clothes may fit the brief, but just don't look right or suit you and stops it looking smart.

Interestedwoman · 25/10/2019 20:09

I would wear a jacket, they can't argue with that.

shearwater · 25/10/2019 20:09

Are your nails clean and unbitten?

What if nails are bitten, what are you supposed to do, stick false nails over the top?

There is clearly nothing wrong with the OP's outfit and she should stick to her guns.

LonelyGir1 · 25/10/2019 20:09

This is hilarious. You should take the feedback on board instead of assuming it's because you don't wear "heavy" makeup. Sounds like everyone has been talking about you as it's an employment law minefield to raise this with you.

You haven't said this, but so many basic people thing of all makeup as being heavy when really they are being judgemental because they think they look great with lip balm (they rarely do).

moredogsthansense · 25/10/2019 20:09

On the gel nails issue, surely this is a problem specifically in medical settings where the wearer needs to scrub their hands to surgical standards of cleanliness, which I always understood means no nail decoration of any sort because it impairs sterility? Except in this exact situation, how could it possibly be unprofessional to have groomed nails? I speak as someone who hates the feel of nail varnish so I never wear it!
Nothing to do with the op, I realise, sorry!

NotStayingIn · 25/10/2019 20:10

LolaSmiles I do see what you mean. But then I'm also hoping the OP has some common sense. If she is rocking up to work in an unironed shirt and ill-fitting trousers, she would hopefully work that one out before feeling the need to post. So I am assuming (hoping!) that this isn't the problem!

Babybel90 · 25/10/2019 20:10

How long have you had your work clothes? I find I have to change mine fairly frequently or they start to look pulled out of shape and bobbly from frequent washing/wearing.

Can you really not find women’s shoes in the right size? Men’s shoes are generally bulkier and wouldn’t look right with women’s clothes, so it could be that you’re technically wearing the right items of clothing but they don’t go together and look scruffy.

I know someone who would come on here and tell you she’s smart, except she’s been wearing the same 1 skirt and 1 pair of trousers for at least the last 12 years and they’re so faded and ill fitting she looks scruffy and it stands out a mile.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/10/2019 20:10

They’re men’s shoes, so they’re unlikely to match what she’s wearing.

heartsonacake, can't you see how sexist this is?

shearwater · 25/10/2019 20:11

Sounds like everyone has been talking about you as it's an employment law minefield to raise this with you

Oh well if everyone has been talking then clearly the OP is in the wrong. 🙄

heartsonacake · 25/10/2019 20:12

White shirt, black trousers, brogues. Fine for anyone.

AutumnRose1 Except that they’re not. You could be wearing all the “right” clothes but if you’re not wearing them well it doesn’t matter.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/10/2019 20:13

LonelyGir1, I assume you say this to the men you work with. If it's not OK for women to turn up to work wearing no make up, why is it OK for men?

INeedMoreCats · 25/10/2019 20:13

Ask for detailed clarification in writing and an explanation as to what he finds unacceptable about your current work attire and how he suggests you improve it. I suspect he will be somewhat reluctant to do so.

I'm a senior manager in the CS. I don't wear a suit or high heels and I've stopped wearing make up due to menopause symptoms turning my face into a sweaty mess. I wouldn't dream of speaking to my team members about dressing inappropriately unless they were turning up in scruffy, disheveled clothing or in clothing completely inappropriate for a professional office environment such as jeans and a football shirt. I would never contemplate suggesting to female team members that they should wear make up as that is so far outside my remit as manager to be ridiculous.

I can most often be found wearing leggings with a dress/tunic and boots. I can't remember the last time I wore a suit or a jacket. I know that the MN opinion on leggings is somewhat split but I just treat them like thick, black tights. Nobody has ever said a word to me about how I dress. I am also customer facing - and not just to other CS departments. I've always found that I have been dressed pretty much equally with the people I have had meetings with.

All of you saying to the OP 'can't you just dress a bit smarter, wear heels, not men's shoes, wear make up, are your nails clean and shaped, try to fit in so you can get promotion' etc, this is 2019 not 1919. You are part of the problem that things haven't moved on.

As women in the workplace we do not need to put up with this shit. And as a senior manager this is not something that I will ever be complicit in. Like why do female airline cabin crew need to be plastered in make up and have perfect hair? Don't get me wrong, the ladies look stunning but it adds nothing to my flight experience as a woman. I just want someone with the skills to help me out onto the escape chute if the worst happens.

If you are managers espousing this view, or just onlookers telling the OP that she needs to change, then you are part of the problem. I had a male manager back in the mid 1980s who suddenly decreed that all female staff could not wear trousers to work, as skirts were far more ladylike. He was an insufferable arse. We all turned up wearing trousers on day 1 of his new regime. And on day 2, day 3 etc, etc. He chuntered a bit on day 1 and 2 but never mentioned it again.

We really can stop this sort of bollocks in its tracks but whilst ever we have women supporting this kind of shit - wear make up, wear a suit and ladies shoes, wear feminine clothing, get your nails done - we will have an uphill battle.

shearwater · 25/10/2019 20:14

if you’re not wearing them well it doesn’t matter

Well, if you are wearing the shoes on your hands, the trousers on your head and the shirt on your bottom half it might be a problem.

Furiosa · 25/10/2019 20:15

LonelyGir1 do you expect men to wear some make up too? Or is it just adult women that need it?

Also, who the hell are ''basic people''?!

BloodSuckClub · 25/10/2019 20:16

Placemarking for the manager's response to e-mail, don't mind me! Wink I might be The Walking Unkempt

goingtotown · 25/10/2019 20:16

OP Where do you buy to your clothes.

AutumnRose1 · 25/10/2019 20:16

heartsonacake "You could be wearing all the “right” clothes but if you’re not wearing them well it doesn’t matter."

Don't you have to be working at Vogue for this to be an issue? And everyone has a different definition of wearing clothes "well". Me, I just wear clothes. I am increasingly concerned about the grooming things expected of women at work. My frizzy hair is starting to seem really odd As everyone is so busy getting rid of frizz. My no make up is starting to make me the odd one out. But as long as the men don't have to.....and no, im not suggesting they should!

RumpoleoftheBaileys · 25/10/2019 20:17

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Geschwister4 · 25/10/2019 20:17

Most companies have a dress code. It seems the OP isn't conforming.

That is just your assumption. Nothing in the thread suggests she isn't dressed appropriately and smartly. It is the definition of smartness that is the problem here, as it seems to be interpreted very differently by different people.

RumpoleoftheBaileys · 25/10/2019 20:18

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