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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

676 replies

Name1Changer123 · 25/10/2019 18:41

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BitOfFun · 26/10/2019 20:39

I like your thinking, JohnMcCainsDeathStare.

wobblywindows · 26/10/2019 20:58

Check that your (wrist)watch is the business- it's part of your personal branding and a big thing in male dress code. And eyebrows - they're the only thing I can think you might have been overlooked. OP mentioned that other women in the office wear cardigans - how is a cardigan ever presentable where the men wear suits?

Knittedbear · 26/10/2019 20:58

What an utterly horrible thread.

I have no idea whether the op looks smart enough for her workplace, what she describes sounds ok.

But some of the opinions on here are hideous.

Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. As far as I'm concerned it really shouldn't matter so long as the person is clean, tidy and dressed appropriately for the task in hand. If op buys men's shoes because her feet are large or she prefers them, well that kind of thing really shouldn't matter, it might not be considered fashionable, but it shouldn't matter. Neither should 'frizzy' hair or unpainted nails.

I often see women in town in their work attire, which is high heels, tight fitted pencil skirt, tight blouse, heavy make up, lots of jewellery and perfume, long fake nails, often they can barely walk in the shoes and I will look and think how ridiculous and uncomfortable they look, but that's my personal opinion. Plenty would think they looked fashionable and well groomed.

Joloupic2019 · 26/10/2019 21:00

I honestly think you may be correct with your suspicions that it's to do with make up and feminimity, as the words used were make an effort, not be smarter or more presentable as your clothes are perfectly adequate and in keeping with the dress code. You should definitely ask how to improve and if they say anything along the lines of make up or dresses take them to union or hr and slaughter them

Blarblarblar · 26/10/2019 21:10

This is fucking awful. I’m totally agog at so many responses on here. You are clean, you are ironed, your clothes fit, you do not have your nips or vulva out. What is not presentable? You must question this because it sounds very much like his idea of presentable is being just a bit more “pretty” and you don’t need to be pretty/feminine to be professional or do a good job.

GothMummy · 26/10/2019 21:13

@wobblywindows is joking about the wrist watch..... Surely?

RingtheBells · 26/10/2019 21:16

Unfortunately GothMummy I suspect notGrin

thirdfiddle · 26/10/2019 21:22

gothmummy, and about the eyebrows! That's mad. I mean, groom your eyebrows if you must but it really isn't a requirement for smart dress.

CaptainNelson · 26/10/2019 21:24

Ineedmorecats
Well said! Agree 100%
Stick you your guns/trousers and blouse, OP

Legomadx2 · 26/10/2019 21:42

Where's that tank top pic from @ThreeLittleDots

It's really nice

HobbyIsCodeForDogging · 26/10/2019 22:05

Well it's a strange one @Name1Changer123 ...

From what you've said, you're easily complying with the letter of the policy if not the "norm" that has evolved in your workplace (and no reason why you should have to fit in with what the other women wear if that's not you).

You definitely need to ask for clarification on what he meant - vagueness is not ok.

If he can define specific things that you can recognise might appear scruffy then you can choose to change them or work somewhere more casual if it's important to you to stay the same.

But if it's anything about wearing heels or lipstick Hmm then I'd say they're uncomfortable with your androgynous style and you have no case to answer (but they arguable do Angry).

Personally, I love what I call an androgynous style of workwear. I am definitely in the trousers, top, jacket, flat shoes camp, but I wear simple make up and do my hair so I guess it has a feminine slant to it.

I've worked with lots of women who also went for an androgynous look, and some looked brilliant and striking and others looked scruffy. I'm really struggling to put my finger on exactly why the scruffy ones looked scruffy, because they were always complying with dress codes... the only things I can come up with are really not fair reasons and certainly not things you could be pulled up on by your boss.

SweetPetrichor · 26/10/2019 22:10

Reading this makes me so glad my career is focused on my brain and not my body. I work in an engineering consultancy. We have no dress code but generally men wear decent trousers or well fitting black jeans and a shirt, some wear ties, and if they're going to be in a meeting with a client, they will probably have a jacket too. Most women wear casual dresses, tights or leggings, sometimes tunic tops, most wear flat shoes. The female who actually stands out the most right now is one who comes in dressed in a smart suit and heels. Nothing wrong with it but she stands out like a sore thumb!

My 'smart enough' work clothes are generally a blackmilk dress of some sort with tights in summer and leggings in winter. Brogues in summer and Dr Martens in winter. Long sleeved thermal shirt under the dress. Sometimes I wear black jeans and a turtle neck top, or a jumper, with boots. Depends on the day. I don't wear any make up. My nails are always clipped really short. And my hair is shaved to a #0.5. Funnily enough, none of this affects my ability to be a good engineer.

lazylinguist · 26/10/2019 22:11

Check that your (wrist)watch is the business- it's part of your personal branding

'Personal branding'?! What on earth kind of cheesy corporate-speak is this? People are people, not vehicles for displaying clothing and accessories!

Funguy · 26/10/2019 22:16

He's out of order. grrr

mccanne · 26/10/2019 22:40

This thread is insane. The examples the OP has given are fine. Tailored trousers, smart blouse and polished shoes. It doesn’t matter at all that they’re men’s shoes.

The worst thing is the assumptions that she’s just not trying hard a enough, especially compared to the men who of course must be smart if they’re wearing suits because no man ever gets away with wearing a cheap, shiny, ill-fitting suit.

FizzFizzPlinkPlink · 26/10/2019 23:03

Actually I think what the OP describes as her typical work outfit is the equivalent of a cheap, shiny ill fitting suit. It's the difference between a sloppily tied polyester tie and a silk tie in a perfect Windsor knot. Both are ties but are worlds apart in terms of grooming and presentation.

DarlingNikita · 26/10/2019 23:26

I think what the OP describes as her typical work outfit is the equivalent of a cheap, shiny ill fitting suit.

Can you say more about why?

AutumnRose1 · 26/10/2019 23:31

Fizz, again, are you assuming the poster is on a very high salary?

On my salary, a cheap suit is fine.

WhisperingPines · 27/10/2019 00:14

HobbyIsCodeForDogging
But if it's anything about wearing heels or lipstick hmm then I'd say they're uncomfortable with your androgynous style and you have no case to answer (but they arguable do angry). Personally, I love what I call an androgynous style of workwear.

This thread shows how (even more) conservative the UK has become. Androgynous fashions were all the rage in 1970s and 80s music scene. Think David Bowie, Grace Jones, Annie Lennox, Phil Oakey, etc.
Also 1940s female Hollywood actors often wore 'masculine' outfits, it was the fashion then: Lauren Bacall (love her!), Marlene Dietrich, etc.
And they looked stylish!

So why are women becoming less feminist and more 'girly' this days?

I guess history repeats itself. In the 1920s some women were actually more liberated in many ways than some women THINK they are now. Then fast forward to the 1950s and women's magazines printed advertisements (aimed at housewives) with photographs of women almost hugging their refrigerators and vacuum cleaners ...

Why - in the year 2019 - do some women still think that one 'should' fit in by looking 'feminine' by wearing skirts, dresses, high heels, make up, painted nails, etc in the workplace? Don't get me wrong, I like smart, tailored, feminine clothes, but I would be just as happy turning up for work in a stylish pair of high-waisted, wide-legged trousers, a crisp white blouse , a tie and brogues.

Celestine70 · 27/10/2019 00:35

I would ask by email what they want changed specifically. You have it in writing then. Maybe wear a trouser suit. I agree you shouldn't have to wear make-up.

DappledThings · 27/10/2019 00:39

@ShowYourselfLucifer I kow I'm late to the party but I really can't see what the issue is with your hair and why you think it looks unprofessional

EBearhug · 27/10/2019 01:10

I'm amazed this thread has got so long when even the OP doesn't know what her manager meant. We can speculate all we want, and it could turn out they meant something entirely different. The manager should get feedback that the comments were just confusing and it would be helpful to give specific examples.

I would absolutely take it further if it's sexism, but we have no idea if it actually is.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 27/10/2019 06:43

Whispering: you make some good points but not wearing make-up or wearing flat shoes isn’t androgynous. My face is female before I put make-up on it (which I do, sometimes). My flat boots and shoes are designed for my female feet. There is nothing at all masculine (and therefore not androgynous) about me.

MummyofTw0 · 27/10/2019 06:59

Good luck to you speaking to your manager

Booboostwo · 27/10/2019 07:20

If you get this level of misogynistic drivel on a forum mainly populated by women, there is really no hope for us.