To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

So what then? Office vote? Manager's discretion?

AutumnRose1 Don’t be facetious.

I wear smart dresses and jackets

That's nice but what's that got to do with the Op who doesn't?

I am amazed to hear that they way people dress at work is an issue unless it's public facing. I know of a very well known bank where even the very senior management (office based) wear jeans and t shirts to work. Their attitude is that it's the person's ability and skills that count. Anyone can wear smart clothes and make up but it doesn't mean they do the job any better than anyone else.
Be careful OP, I just sense there's an element of discrimination /bullying going on at your workplace.

I am not from the UK.

Some of the replies on this thread, about the dress code in the workplace, sound very archaic!

Perhaps this is a cultural difference, but in my country of origin bank employees, for instance, do not wear a uniform. They just wear smart/smart casual clothes. The bank branch manager, if it's a man, will wear a smart jacket, shirt and tie but not necessarily a business suit (matching jacket & trousers). For example, he will wear cotton trousers, a smart shirt, a tie and a blazer.

My own cousin is a bank branch manager in my country of origin. She is 47 years old, a 'tomboy' type person, and she will definitely NOT wear dresses and skirts to work! She may wear fashionable trousers and a top/long-sleeved women's shirt and a jacket. And most probably flat shoes. Tbh, I have never seen her in a dress/skirt and high heels in my life! I don't think she paints her fingernails either.

Not many people in my home country wear very formal clothing to work, even when they work in a customer facing role. They are required to dress smartly and be presentable but they aren't necessarily expected to wear 'business suits'. Perhaps only those people in very senior roles wear them (e.g. the GM or CEO of a company).

Perhaps companies in the UK are more formal or more old-fashioned in that respect?
I do like the look of a good quality, well-fitting business suit for a man or a woman, and in fact I used to wear business suits (with skirt or trousers) to my work (in London) sometimes, but I wouldn't like it if I were required to wear one every single work day because this is what companies 'expect'.

I’d go to HR personally. The only person making a ‘scene’ is your manager who can’t give you a straight answer.

Also, I’ve got shoes from the men’s department (brogues) and anyone who doesn’t like it can fuck off.

”Perhaps companies in the UK are more formal or more old-fashioned in that respect? I do like the look of a good quality, well-fitting business suit for a man or a woman, and in fact I used to wear business suits (with skirt or trousers) to my work (in London) sometimes, but I wouldn't like it if I were required to wear one every single work day because this is what companies 'expect'.”

I honestly don’t think that’s the case anymore. DH works in a City law firm, and even in that traditionally conservative environment if he wears a suit he is frequently in the minority these days. Women very rarely wear suits.

Oh, and I should also say that in the country where I was brought up the Head of a school doesn't even wear a 'suit', whereas I think they do in England.
I personally know the (male) Head of a well-regarded primary school in my country of origin, and he always wears stylish smart/smart casual clothes to work (think Ralph Lauren, for example) but never a 'business suit'.

We can all speculate but the bottom line is you need to go back in to see your manager and ask for specifics as you can’t understand what it is your meant to do on top of what you already do in terms of looking professional. Bite the bullet and ask.

flowery

I honestly don’t think that’s the case anymore. DH works in a City law firm, and even in that traditionally conservative environment if he wears a suit he is frequently in the minority these days. Women very rarely wear suits.

I never worked in the City and I haven't lived in London for over a decade so perhaps things have changed there.

we have a dress code because we can have visitors at any time - unfortunately it is a common sense dress code and people still try to push it to the limit . Its up to each individual employer to say what they want .

They have, yes. I used to work in London (although not the City) until 12 years and wore suits regularly, definitely not out of place. I would stick out like a sore thumb if I did that now I think!

Name1Changer123 I’m shocked at your Manager treating you this way. I agree you need any further comments in writing and if you think there is an adverse effect on your record or your progress at work because of this attitude I suggest you get your Union involved and do not discuss anything further without your Rep. with you. My friend was picked on in a similar way. She says she wishes she had got herself help from the union straight away. If you are not a member don’t worry, join the Union most appropriate for you straight away and get advice. With respect to comments here, ignore ppl who suggest you aren’t looking clean and neat and don’t feel you have to explain your source of shoes. You clearly dress perfectly presentable and look very nice. I love your choice of shoes fwiw. As to ppl saying there is a 1950s attitude, they have forgotten that the 2nd WW was not long past and women in uniform wearing brogues were still rather “dishy”. Actually adverts keep flashing past this as I write which are of white shirts and black trousers and brogue type shoes so I fail to see what the issue is. As to make up... How can a Boss make an employee wear it unless it’s what they sell? I abhor that Air Lines still pander to this sexist and outdated suppression of women. Good luck. Hold your ground. You could be the ground breaking case that moves equal rights in employment into the Twentyfirst century!

I don’t wear make up- I run my own business and have worked in a professional setting my entire life. Even in cosmetology school before I started uni and we were all meant to dress nice and have hair done. Make up- if you didn’t wear it regularly- was not mandatory.

I do however take AMAZING care of my skin. I wear eye creams sometimes curl my lashes if it’s an important meeting, and I do things to my face every single night before bed to make sure I wake up looking fresh. You SHOULD wear make up if you don’t take care of your face and do business regularly. The woman that don’t you can tell and unfortunately do NOT get as much respect/land the big deals etc. it’s just the line of work to make yourself as presentable as possible

I know it’s not very feminist but in a business line of work it’s sort of mandatory to look your very best- and yes people can for sure tell when you don’t put in any effort.

Jesus fucking Christ the replies on this thread. There are a horrendous amount of snobby appearance obsessed people here and it's awful.

I think it's disgusting that in a meeting where they called you in to tell you that you weren't meeting the dress code, they didn't point out what wasn't meeting the dress code and needed correcting. When I worked in an office we had to call a girl in to a meeting to tell her she smelled and needed to shower and use deodorant. It was awkward and embarrassing but we needed to do it because it was the issue and it needed correcting. Talking vaguely around the issue wasn't going to get it sorted and I'm sure whilst the girl was embarrassed then, she fixed it and got to keep her job.

I don’t think it’s about your lack of makeup and heels. I don’t wear makeup or heels either but I have found that I’ve had to invest in a new work wardrobe lately as my autumn/winter stuff was just old and shabby after wearing dresses over summer.

Rather than doing my usual trick of buying trousers and tops that I can mix and match, I’ve bought two “outfits”. A new work coat is on my list to buy next. I think sometimes it’s easy to forget to update our work wardrobe.

I also have pretty frizzy hair and so keep a comb at work so that I can always make sure that no matter how windswept I enter the office, I always look presentable to begin work. I’ve also started to prioritise getting my hair cut regularly as this is something else I’m good at forgetting about, but knowing it’s cut and neat gives me much better confidence - as does knowing I look smart with what I’m wearing.

I hope you manage to sort everything out.

1- reply to this in an email

2- don’t feel bad

This company sounds sexist as crap

Aunaturalmama you do you, flawless skin must be nice and good on anyone who works on theirs, but no, no one SHOULD wear make up if they don't use skin treatments.

Aunaturalmama

I know it’s not very feminist but in a business line of work it’s sort of mandatory to look your very best- and yes people can for sure tell when you don’t put in any effort.

Please define 'to look your very best'. What does it mean?

Does this mean wearing a traditional 'business suit' (men/women), or stylish smart/smart casual clothes, preppy style clothes, make up, nail polish, high heels, top brand expensive clothes, ...
What does it mean??

'In a business line of work' - a sales rep who works for a sports clothing company, or a company that sells work overalls would not be expected to wear a made to measure suit to see clients, would they?

Oh dear. Do the men wear make up? Manscara? Guyliner? This is SO sexist!! As long as you look smart, professional, what else is expected?

I think there are some escapees from The Apprentice on this thread

hearts so what is your advice if people cannot agree on what's an acceptable shoe style in the office?

Genuine question! Not intended as facetious though your reply did make me laugh.

Hmm I have a slightly whacky colleague who is a bit boho with docs but shiny hair, some of it's bleached and a bit spiky, neat nails, and immaculate. Probably a bit of concealer and lip gloss.

Another colleague who wears plain black work trousers, often a jersey interlock top and slip on sensible shoes. No make up, no hair styling. Never dirty. But nothing is ironed or smart and some of those tops are 7/8 years old and look it.

Guess which one inspires more confidence. Casual can look well put together and we are a fairly casual organisation. And then there's scruffy and dowdy.

OhtheRoses would you feel differently about the second colleague if their clothes were ironed?

Previous poster mentions Asda shoes. I'm guessing the people with high expectations are not earning average wage or below.