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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

676 replies

Name1Changer123 · 25/10/2019 18:41

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FizzFizzPlinkPlink · 26/10/2019 15:22

Humans are very visual creatures so appearances do matter very much. It sounds to me like you resent having to think about your appearance hence your outfits look thoughtless and careless. A blouse and black trousers can look stylish or it can look scruffy it depends so much on the cut and fabric.

I am required to wear smart business dress for work so I know there's a huge difference in appearance between wearing a Jaeger dress and LK Bennett shoes or a dress from Dotty Perkins and shoes from Asda.

MrsPellegrinoPetrichor · 26/10/2019 15:29

Size 12 shoes is huge! It's bigger than most men's sizes. My husband took 12 and I had to carefully source shoes for him, not everyone goes up that far, usually stops at 10 or 11 for a man

7-8 is considered big for a woman

What a helpful comment.

OP your plan sounds a good idea. What you have described sounds ideal for the office so will be interesting to hear what the feedback is. Hope it goes ok.

magpiecounter · 26/10/2019 15:31

We have to look smart and appropriate at work. Men to wear a suit and tie and women to be business like. If I work just a blouse and trousers I would be sent home. I forgot my blazer once on a training day and was refused entry! Women in my workplace have to wear almost the same as men but without the tie (unless they want to). If my hair was down I'd be pulled up and if I hadn't done my makeup I'd be questioned.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 26/10/2019 15:38

if I hadn't done my makeup I'd be questioned.

By the FBI?

Lexplorer · 26/10/2019 15:43

Are the men questioned about their hair and make-up as well Magpie? How do organisations get away with this?

LolaSmiles · 26/10/2019 15:47

magpiecounter
Hair up I can get behind if it prevents that endless flicking of hair off the face. Equally, having similar expectations of formality from male and female employees is also reasonable.

However, if anyone questioned me for not wearing makeup then I'd be telling them where to go unless I'd chosen to work in an industry such as fashion and beauty.

MrsPellegrinoPetrichor · 26/10/2019 15:47

Men are questioned about their appearance at dh's work.

ExhaustionSIeep · 26/10/2019 15:48

My first job at 18 (2000) I was told to wear make up as I was on reception ....

I told them where to go. I got sacked

ScreamingBeans · 26/10/2019 15:54

I loved the comment someone posted about feeling more finished when her nails were done.

I have a vision of all these women out there with unfinished hands. Bits of fingers missing, half thumbs flailing around...

DragonontheWagon · 26/10/2019 15:56

Christ alive, what a thread.

Women tripping over themselves to get the Op to post a pic of herself in her work wardrobe to, presumably, pick her choices to pieces. Should she post just one shirt/blouse or do you need to see her whole wardrobe?

And I really have no idea of the relevance of her weight as asked ya poster a few pages back. Does being overweight cause problems when using a computer?

seaweedandmarchingbands · 26/10/2019 16:00

Being overweight is relevant because it makes it harder to find office wear to fit in a “fitted” style. Black trousers - as someone took pains above to point out - aren’t just black trousers; to be “polished”, they have to be “fitted” (read tight-fitting) and you have to tuck the blouse in, so the sorts of clothes that tend to make larger women feel comfortable - with a bit of movement in them - are the sorts of clothes they often get frowned at for wearing.

LolaSmiles · 26/10/2019 16:01

DragonontheWagon
I missed the weight comment but given most of the thread has been many of us trying to explore possible reasons for the comments other than guessing they want OP to wear heels/make up I would wonder if someone was asking because it can sometimes be that larger women end up getting more stick for looks etc than slimmer women because people can be really unpleasant about size.

LolaSmiles · 26/10/2019 16:05

seaweedandmarchingbands
Cross posted with you but we seem to have a similar idea.

I don't think well fitting means tight fitted though. It just means it fits well for someone's frame. (Eg a pair of bootcut office trousers might fit me but they don't look well fitted, they look like I've shoved any old thing on and that doesn't look smart, but I have a few pairs of wide leg trousers that suit my One of my colleagues really suits the patterned slacks but I look silly in them).

Babdoc · 26/10/2019 16:10

OP, in your shoes (which sound very smart and practical!) I would email the manager and copy in both HR and your union rep.
I would ask the manager to detail in writing exactly what their objection was to your appearance.
I would hope, if they have any sense at all, that they would hastily backtrack, but if not, they will be giving you all the ammunition you need to take it further. Good luck.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/10/2019 16:24

magpiecounter's workplace sounds as if they might be heading towards a tribunal. I'm assuming if a male employee turned up wearing no make up he wouldn't be questioned. What about men with long hair?

BunnyColvin · 26/10/2019 16:31

And I really have no idea of the relevance of her weight as asked ya poster a few pages back. Does being overweight cause problems when using a computer

I made the comment, and I made it because people are sometimes discriminated on weight grounds, so it was just to see if that could have been the case here.

OP didn't respond to that anyway.

Hingeandbracket · 26/10/2019 16:36

Personally I don't think it's a put together work look and think it looks like they cba
Fuck me! the Victorians are still here!

MaxNormal · 26/10/2019 16:42

magpiecounter do you work in the 1940s?

FunOnTheBeach20 · 26/10/2019 16:43

@ Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Men with long hair wouldn’t be employed at my workplace! Some industries are still pretty archaic.

Hingeandbracket · 26/10/2019 16:48

Men with long hair wouldn’t be employed at my workplace! Some industries are still pretty archaic.
I can't imagine that kind of discrimination is strictly legal, although I know it continues in really shit workplaces.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/10/2019 16:49

I know the Tories have done their level best to dismantle employment rights, and to put huge obstacles in the way of people trying to exercise the few we have left, and of course unions aren't the force they were - but how can employers get away with this stuff? Women must wear make up and high heels, men can't have long hair, all employees must spend a lot of money on formal clothes that don't make an iota of difference to how people carry out their jobs - and we just lie back and take it.

FunOnTheBeach20 · 26/10/2019 16:55

Not legal, but still live.

Women in my workplace should be in skirt suits, not trouser suits.. amongst other things...

AutumnRose1 · 26/10/2019 17:09

hearts "If you look at someone and they’re wearing clean, ironed, well fitting smart attire but their shoes are, say, clunky and don’t match the style of the outfit, they aren’t going to look presentable."

But that opinion will differ widely between individuals. You've only got to look at a S&B thread to see the variations in view on "will these shoes work with this outfit".

So what then? Office vote? Manager's discretion?

ToftyAC · 26/10/2019 17:30

IMO from what you’ve said OP they’re striving for you to be more feminine. In this day & age they’re on a sticky wicket. Make your manager squirm. Or follow up with HR. I worked in a very very corporate field previously where the women were in little dresses/short skirts, perfectly coiffured, a shit ton of perfect make up and come fuck me heels. I dressed like you - no make up, flat shoes, tailored trousers & a work blouse. Not once did anyone dare mention anything because I was appropriately dressed for an office. Your company needs to be very careful here.

Rainbowsparkle · 26/10/2019 17:34

I wear smart dresses and jackets