To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

If it's acceptable for men to wear men's shoes than it's acceptable for women to wear men's shoes.

Weird that on the app you have to click to see more than her crotch...oops

@Namechangeforthiscancershit

That's very kind of you to say.
Your comment has hit home and I should be grateful for it!
But it has been a pain in my arse for many a year.

What industry do you work in?!

And this is why I’m so glad my workplace allows me to wear whatever I like to work each day with no dress code. It’s bloody lovely not having a panic every morning over what to wear to fit in.

@Glacecherrychops Are you honestly saying that my hair, being the way it is, would be completely acceptable in a professional workplace (or any workplace for that matter)?

It really is Virtualhamster maybe im old fashioned but the comments about how styled women should be is depressing !

@ShowYourselfLucifer I'm sure it has! I have friends who have spent thousands on "taming" theirs but they really don't need to. We all see ourself so differently to how other people do.

Furiosa
It's still possible not to look smart or put together in clean, ironed clothing.

For example, I can try on 15 pairs of trouser when I have to do the dreaded work shop. Out of those 15, probably 8 would fit. I could wear any of those 8 to work, but only 2 or 3 would look smart and well fitted on me. I'm not fashionable, but know it matters to look professionly groomed so I take the time to think about which would work best.

I know other people who would go to a shop, find the first pair that fit, buy them and they become their work trousers, regardless of how well they fit and whether the overall look is suitable.

It's a bit like when style and beauty boards talk about how everyone needs a smart black dress and a crisp white shirt for work. I could easily find some that fit, but I dont look polished in them.

@ShowYourselfLucifer sorry been a pain not got home. I am not a motivational speaker or anything!

Mhairi Black's in that photo

• clothes fit her well, not too small or too big
• outfit is colour coordinated
• hair is neatly brushed

She looks professional. Plenty of advice here has advised these things.

OP could be going to work looking like Mhari, or like Jay from The Inbetweeners. We just don't know.

@seaweedandmarchingbands

“Professional” for women clearly = “feminine” and “white” for some posters. Frizzy hair FGS

^

Your post. Trying to read between the lines of frizzy and have somehow got to the conclusion that I'm being racist (?)

Way off the mark.

@shearwater Your reply to me was ages ago but just in case you're still reading - I was just trying to identify things her bosses might have been picking up on rather than a value judgement about whether they would be reasonable to do so or not. I'm a (sort of reformed but with lapses!) nail biter myself!

@ShowYourselfLucifer I can't see the photo, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't be professional. It's just hair, it's not saying anything about you other than this is the hair I was born with. Why do you think it's a problem?

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a Lawyer/surgeon/teacher with frizzy hair. IF they were in a mini skirt, with heavy makeup and long gel nails, or stank of BO and in dirty, creased clothes then I probably would. Because those things tell you something about that person, having frizzy hair doesn't

but I dont look polished in them.

This is the issue, though. “Polished” - what does it mean? The OP’s dress code doesn’t say “polished”, and if someone said I needed to look “polished”, unfortunately - given everything we know about sexism in the workplace - I would think they were telling me to look stereotypically feminine: fitted clothing, rather than clothing that fits; a made-up face, rather than a clean one; heels, rather than flats; straight, styled hair, rather than clean hair, neatly done; accessories that cost money (shoes, bag, scarf).

None of those things make the slightest bit of difference to how well I do my job. Some of them are toxic (more easily achieved by people of certain body types/height/income or even race).

It needs to stop.

@Namechangeforthiscancershit

That's very true. We all want what we haven't got/can't have!
I've tried so hard to tame it, it last minutes and ruins the condition - which makes it even more wild so I gave up.

I hope you're feeling well?

In the ladies section, often worn with a skirt! Shock horror!!

Most posters assume your boss isn't a sexist arse because that never happens. Oh wait...

I have a pair of brown brogues which are frequently mistaken for mens when I'm not wearing them. Like, if I'm in my house and my Dad visits and then I go to put my slippers on, he says "oh I thought those were mine", as he has a really similar pair. But I also get loads of compliments on them when I wear them, even on the MN S&B page I'll have you know .

So, I bet the shoes are fine.

If your hair is tidy enough, (by which I do not mean straightened and styled to death, just not falling into your eyes), your shirt is tucked in and everything is clean and ironed, I have no idea what the hell they are on about.

I've worked in some really corporate offices in London and around it and I also used to live in Paris.

While a lot of women in offices dress in matchy matchy LK Bennett dresses, with matching jackets, shiny ballet pumps or spindly heels, hair long, long, long and straightened to death, regardless of age, body type, personality etc, it absolutely is not essential to be another cardboard cutout and forcing that look, as some people seem to, actually ends up looking a bit try hard and uncool. Different if that's your natural style, I hasten to add. Some people are naturally like that and it shows when they wear what genuinely suits them.

The most stylish people I see out and about now, as well as in my various offices, when I was still working, always dress to please themselves, within reason. Just like you do. And understated clothes often look a lot cooler and more chic than wearing heels and matchy matchy workwear.

So, in summary, YANBU and you sound cool 😎.

ShowYourselfLucifer

I don’t know whether you’re being racist or not. I assume not. But I know that the politics surrounding hair type are very real for BAME women, and that it isn’t okay to conflate straight hair with looking “polished”. I don’t really care about what you intended by it.

Some of these responses are hilarious and circa 1950.

Unless your blouse is massively gaping revealing your body parts, or your zipper is undone revealing your pants, or you have stains all over your clothing I do not think your employers have anything to say!

You sound perfectly tidy to me. I wear brogues, trousers, long blouse, no make up, spots showing and sometimes scraped back hair which may have a bit of shine to it! I am not trendy and hair is like a thin rat's tail down my back.

But... like you I am tidy and smart. Your job is not to be an object for others to look at whilst you are at work. You do not need anyone's approval. And the fact they are talking about "dress code" and not your work suggests you are a good employee.

I would send an email advising, " Thank you for your feedback about my work attire. I wear a tailored blouse, work trousers and smart black shoes daily. Please can you advise me what area of my attire is not acceptable and provide suggestions as to what would be acceptable."

I find it heartbreaking that this is still being squabbled about in late 2019. FFS what clothing a person wears, what decoration they plaster on their face and how he or she arranges their hair should be absolutely irrelevant by now. Displaying genitals is probably still not a good idea... but really we need to get past all this stuff and get on with all the things that are far more important.

@Glacecherrychops

Throughout my life my mum would iron my hair to ensure it looked presentable.
That happened from a very young age and that is what I, personally, was taught.

Lessons from my mum on how to look presentable:

• Tidy brows
• Ironed hair
• Groomed nails
• Well fitting, clean clothes
• Excellent oral/personal hygiene
• Make-up to highlight what you have, not mask it.

So it's ingrained in me. My hair was always too big naturally to look professional.
That's probably my issue to deal with but I was just offering OP my opinion.

ShowYourselfLucifer

In agreement with the frizzy hair. No way I could go to work without taming mine somehow.

The wielding of smelling salts at the mens shoes is almost unbelievably pathetic. As if the OP needs an excuse for buying the type of office footwear that fits her and her budget best!