To change Christmas plans because of their attitude to my daughter

[skunkatanka]

We have two daughters. One is a teenager- very studious, quiet, always well behaved as you'd expect from someone her age. The other is 5 and behaves really well most of the time. For example, when we take her to restaurants etc she will always sit well and eat with no fuss, no messing around etc. She is polite, well mannered and doing well at school. All good. However, sometimes she has moments where she doesn't quite do as she should- don't put her shoes on, get her hair brushed etc. Nothing hideous but quite normal 5 year old stuff.
Anyway, we have just returned from visiting relatives and our 5 year old had just such a moment. This was over something and nothing and we dealt with it without much issue. However, the thing I have been left upset about was my relatives attitude towards her and the situation. They told her to "shut up" when she was complaining (didn't want to put her shoes on), said "I know what she needs" meaning a smack and then repeatedly told her she wasn't welcome but her older sister was as she's always well behaved. I didn't say much to them at the time- I got on with sorting the shoe crisis and then we left. However, we are supposed to be going there for Christmas and I now really don't want to. I feel that my lovely little girl doesn't deserve to be spoken to like that for simply being a 5 year old. There were so many moments when her behaviour was amazing while we were there and none of those were ever commented on- only the negative. Their help wasn't requested- her behaviour re the shoes was already being dealt with and really did not need two more adults wading in and making threats.

For context, we have never hit our children, never would and feel very strongly about this. They, and most other family members however, did/do hit theirs.

So AIBU to tell them we won't be there for Christmas or anytime soon.

Are the kids going to have any contact with their grandparents moving forward?

Have you thought about having a discussion about the issue before canceling Christmas?
The way they handled the situation isn’t right, but it sounds like they thought they were helping you (although it was really unhelpful).

It would be a shame to stop any relationship the kids have with their grandparents because of this. I’m in no way saying you should stand back and let them emotionally abuse one of your children. Just it may be worth trying to find a way to see them without the conflict.

I don’t like my parent’s behaviour, but still love them. They see our kids supervised and if their is any unwanted behaviour I remove kids. I have spoken to them about the unwanted behaviour (Arguing between themselves) and made it clear that I find it unacceptable. I can’t control what an adult does though.

I would be clearer I think in any text /email that it is their reaction and repeatedly saying she was not welcome that is why you are not coming .... do not make it about her... it is about them or make it out about you and them ...

Not welcome was uttered and you are taking them at their word.

Later, perhaps, you can make clear that if they want to welcome you again, they need only do two things: let you parent your child without commenting and stop comparing the two DGD's.

That really shouldn't be too difficult!

Tell them you’re not coming because they said dd is not welcome and as you can’t leave a 5 year old on their own you will be staying home with her.

@SarahNade smacking is nothing to with being ‘old school’ its about not being able to control your anger and dishing it out to children in the form of physical violence.

Im 36 and was never hit as a child, nor were my 5 siblings and we all respected my parents and behaved.

Stop trying to dress up violence towards children as ‘old school’ its utterly pathetic.

I agree not to go.

Your daughter isn't welcome.

I'd be staying away until they say that she is!

I also wouldn't be bothering to explain why you feel how you do.

They overreacted & it's all on them.

GPs can get pissed off-we all can.

I'm sure mine might have said-"come on, stop your fussing, the shoes have got to go on" or whatever.
(Maybe even after I have dealt with it).

But threats & being compared unfavourably-no.

I don't understand you not defending your child for the sake of preventing a fight-you could've sent your youngest ahead with her sister and your partner and stayed and told them exactly what you're telling us total strangers on the internet. Perhaps some counseling would help with boundaries with your parents?

When my in-laws behaved like this, we just cut back on visits for a while.

If it was my parents I would have had a word, but I don't have that sort of relationship with the in-laws, and DH wouldn't do it.

OP you hit the nail on the head in your post above. Your child is almost certainly going to ger overtired/overexcited, you can deal with that easily in your own home but in your parents, if they're being nasty? It will blow up into a huge drama. And I wouldn't take my child somewhere that she had been explicitly told she was unwelcome.

Just got to do the telling now!!!

Why rush to tell them and bring the wrath on yourself? They are the ones that told you DD isn't welcome. So you take them at their word. Say nothing and when they bring up Christmas in the next few weeks you can say then that you aren't coming. When they predictably go off on one, you calmly ust that they were very clear to you all that DD was unwelcome if she couldn't act older than her age, so you made other plans because obviously you are not leaving your 5yo at home for Christmas. Be calm but firm and tell them that you can't now cancel. Plans are done. And let them sulk or whatever.

And have a lovely Christmas at home or wherever you like where you can enjoy the magic of a 5yo's excitement at Christmas without censure.

She's 5 though. What has their interaction been like in the run up to now? Surely this isn't the first time they've seen her tired or excited. What did you do at previous Christmas gatherings?

@melissasummerfield It is completely old school, and it has nothing at all to do with anger, it is to do with guiding and raising. I was never smacked out of anger, nor did I. But I am not going to justify my beliefs especially when one confuses care and guidance with anger.

If you’re not happy with they way they treat your children, why the heck limit it to Christmas.

I wouldn't go for Christmas either; glad you've decided to tell them you're staying home.

We had our children later than average, too, so there was also an element of our children appearing to be more poorly behaved than their older cousins . Plus, the gparents themselves were older, and I think with that age comes more forgetting what small children are like and less tolerance, frankly.

I'm still mindful that ours are boisterous boys and the cousins are older quieter girls ... you can just eel the judgement sometimes ... grates.

@SarahNade My late father was born in 1931 and would never have dreamed of smacking me and my brothers, and never needed to. We had our moments, of course, but we were always invited back, never had any backlash about our behaviour, no issues at school.

From my observation, smacking teaches a child to tell lies and shift blame.

Thinking back, my late grandfather was born in 1912, and he didn't believe in corporal punishment either. I don't think (going back to the mists of time, but picking up what I remember from conversations) that he had much physical punishment at home, either, and while his father was away for years at a time, he was a ship's captain who understood discipline.

I've never been tempted to smack. I've been tempted to scream and swear, but not smack.

OP - your parents are going to treat your children the way they treated you, possibly with less tolerance now that they are older. I wouldn't go at Christmas, but would make an effort to facetime or similar. In future, it may be better to get a hotel or AirBnB for visits, to cut down on the stress, and to give you somewhere to escape.

I wouldn't bother telling them. If they ask what time you're coming, you could reply 'We're not' and leave it at that.

Life is so much better when you don't need to worry about threats of violence and rejection being made to your children. I wouldn't be surprised if your DD2 looks more like you than her older sister - it's easy for arseholes like that to 'see' the parent that they were happy to wallop when small and defenceless - and it's a bloody good way to control an adult who is too big to hit, to threaten their child, isn't it?

'A 5 year old having a paddy isn't fun for anyone to deal with, especially when you aren't used to it'

They didn't have to deal with it at all. They could have left all 'dealing' to the parents.

I honestly can’t imagine any adult telling my 5 year old to “shut up” and for me not to say not to talk to my child that way.

Why is it that adults are allowed 'off' days or 'off' moments but when a child does it, it shouldn't be happening?? We all know what it is like to be tired and frustrated which is sounds like your DD was. To actually compare your children who are 10 years apart is utterly ridiculous.
My dad is a toxic man and thankfully we have no contact with him (or my mum but that's something different) and I am glad my children will not be subject to him and his nasty ways!
I think you are in your own right not to go at Christmas however, if you do want to keep some sort of relationship, I would offer them the opportunity to apologise to you and your daughter. If they don't, there's your answer.

So to summarize; your basically well-behaved 5-year old had a moment at "Tatty Time" which lasted 5 minutes, which you dealt with. her "mature" "adult" GP's had a rant which went on for 15 minutes, only curtailed by your departure? And the overwhelmed child is the one who needs the smack?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think corporal punishment is suitable for any age, but really........
As well as explaining that you wouldn't bring your child to a place where she is unwelcome, how about making the Christmas present a nice big mirror?

I would stay at home for Christmas. It sounds like it would be far too stressful at their house. My parents in law will come to us for Christmas. They are lovely people-very laid back and good fun. My parents are not invited. We do see them, but they are much more uptight and as my son as ASD and can be tricky. We don't want them over for Christmas as it's the one time of year i feel really able to switch off from work etc. You are right to recognise what is best for your kids and family OP.

My instinct has always been to not rock the boat but I'm really upset and angry at the way my daughter was treated
That isn't instinct - it's conditioning.
You've been conditioned by your parents to quietly accept their shitty treatment without complaint - no matter how you feel.

Parents. I didn't want to make the situation worse and it would have done. There would have been a huge row that I didn't want my daughters to have to watch
If you being assertive and standing up for your Dd and protecting her from their emotional abuse is going to lead to a row - then it's best you get this over and done with asap.
Then assert your boundaries and the consequences for violating them at the same time, so any negative behaviour/attitude from them
will result in you following through with the consequences.

You need to stop being scared of their reactions to you not playing their games.
They don't actually have any power over you.

Don't spoil your 5yos Christmas by taking her somewhere she isn't wanted.
Tell your parents exactly why, in a letter if it's easier.