To think one can go for a pee when their newborn is asleep?

[ChilledBee]

So the other day I emailed the lullaby trust to ask:

pelirocco123

There is some evidence that the close proximity of the mother’s breathing reduces the likelihood of SIDS.

What are you supposed to do piss yourself?
Go to the loo

How are you supposed to manage when there is more than one child ? Baby sleeping in a room with you, toddler in another room wakes or you are trying to get toddler to sleep - that could take more than a few minutes to settle. Are you supposed to take baby with you ? Baby wakes, sets slightly calming toddler off again and so on in a circle of wailing hysteria ( including the mother by then )

See I can understand the theory that at night your breathing can regulate your babies breathing. You are in close proximity, your breathing will be deeper and more audible. There will also be less background noise.

During the day, if you are awake, your breathing will be shallower, you could be at one end of the room and the baby could be at the other. The tv / radio could be on, the washing machine, a million things. I very much doubt that any baby could hear it’s mother’s breathing, same room or not.

I have a lot of sympathy for new parents as a lot of guidelines seem to have lost all common sense. They seem to be seen as rules which must be obeyed at all costs.

We put DS2 in his own room at 3 weeks as he snored like an express train (and still does at 10). I discussed it with the hv beforehand and she said that just because the hv team recommended something, didn’t mean we had to do it. He was our child.

vikkimoog I can't begin to imagine what pain you went through

I think a lot of overanxious new mothers slavishly apply guidelines to ridiculous extremes.
Then they have a second baby!
Second and subsequent births activate the ”common sense” pathway in the brain. Practicality supervenes.
Juggling a screaming, tantruming, potty training toddler soon puts paid to any notion of sitting for three hours beside a cot, observing a baby’s breathing during a daytime nap!

Someone probably needed to tell the midwives / nurses at the postnatal unit I was in after I had DD. I was in for a few days, & was told on a couple of occasions, that I shouldn't leave the baby alone (to go for a wee), but also that I shouldn't carry her along the corridor, or wheel the cot along the corridor with her in it. And pressing the call button was no use - they didn't come for hours sometimes. I came to the conclusion that using the toilet was only acceptable during visiting hours...

Sneering at very clearly anxious first time mums and calling them ‘Martyrs’ is not nice. well, I do think that first time mothers with such anxiety should be gently persuaded that it’s not about all or nothing. I am far more about those who say things like “well, disregard the guidelines if you want, but could you live with yourself if something happened?” That’s victim blaming at its finest especially given many babies who die from SIDS do so regardless of what guidelines parents did and didn’t follow.

And there is following guidelines and then there is losing all common sense. The guidelines state that the baby should sleep in with parents until six months, and realistically there is more than one way of following that one or not at all.

For some people, they will sleep in the same room as the baby at night but during the day will put baby upstairs. Personal choice. For me my DS went into his own room at 9 weeks and slept through the night from the next day. I put him to sleep upstairs from around four weeks providing he was settled. And that worked for us.

But for those who state that someone going to the toilet is irresponsible they really should be encouraged that, even if they don’t leave their baby for the majority of the time, there are times when not doing so can actually be detrimental to their own mental and emotional and even physical (if they’re not going to the toilet) wellbeing.

Afaik the actual cause of SIDS is still not known. There are some steps which have reduced the number of SIDS deaths, most noteably the back to sleep campaign, but if a baby does die of SIDS it’s impossible to pinpoint the actual reason why it happened. And as for asking someone whether they could live with themselves if the worst happened, well, I’m sure that even if a parent follows the guidelines to the letter and the baby dies those parents will still be asking themselves if they could have done anything differently. So suggesting that someone wouldn’t be able to live with themselves is not only accusatory to the parent not following the guidelines, but it also suggests an element of blame on the part of a bereaved parent, and there’s just no need.

@ AlternativePerspective very eloquently put

Second and subsequent births activate the ”common sense” pathway in the brain. Practicality supervenes.

a friend used to say that she wiped her first baby's face with an organic cotton facecloth, washed after every use.

Second baby, clean flannel, used a few times before washing.

Third baby, dishcloth.

Fourth baby, any goddamn cloth that was to hand that wasn't completely filthy.

Excellent comment, AlternativePerspective.

The only times in my whole life I take my children to the bathroom with me on purpose is when shopping and just after labour because I couldn't even eat toast without a screaming fit let alone go to the bathroom (I hate hate hate maternity wards) and I didn't want my baby demon to wake up poor exhausted new mums.

I LOVE naptime, now I don't need to catch up on sleep its an ideal time to catch up on chores or have a great bath.

I did however have a panic attack any time I took my sons into the car because I was convinced that we would get into a crash and die. I also cried and begged my DH to take us to hospital because my newborn slept 6 hours at a time (didn't last) because I was convinced it meant something was wrong with him and constantly googled shaken baby syndrome incase just bouncing him could kill him. I am now on anti anxiety medication as I was diagnosed with post partum anxiety disorder which was getting progressively worse despite ds being nearly 1.. so I can see how mums might take advice far too literally. I am so so so much better now thankfully.

It's an organisation that specialises in safe sleep guidelines and research.

Some people should rethink having children, maybe gain some common sense before TTC...

The guidelines are clearly not to let babies under six months sleep in their own bedroom at night. It says nothing about a baby having a nap during the day while the parent leaves the room for whatever reason. It’s pretty straight forward.

That’s 5 minutes I wont get back !

Better write them another letter and ask them if a poo is ok... that can take longer particularly in postpartum agony

So you've emailed them just to call anxious parents "OTT and ridiculous". Nice. These parents are being over cautious but could have anxiety, PND, could have lost previous children etc and you're, at best, being unhelpful. You didn't email to bring information to make these parents feel less anxious or ask the lullaby trust about accessing information or how they get information out to people. You did it to post here to try and be "right" or whatever.

Blaue yes SIDS can happen to healthy babies during naps. However whether their parent left the room to go for a wee or make a cup of tea is highly unlikely to have any effect. What we do know is that babies sleeping in a separate room totally alone roughly doubles the chance that it will happen. That doesn't mean that sleeping alone causes SIDS. It's more complicated than that. You're also talking about doubling a miniscule chance - it's something like 0.001% doubling to 0.002%. I believe every one of the SIDS cases of the last few years have also had two or more risk factors, not just one.

Some babies will die of SIDS regardless of every guideline being followed - that is the sad truth. There could also be a freak accident that kills them at any time. We have to live, we can't spend every second trying to eliminate every trace of risk. It's best to follow as many of the guidelines as you reasonably can but I wouldn't overly worry if you find one of them hard to fulfil. SIDS is also never anybody's fault even if you didn't follow any of the guidelines. It's just there to help you make an informed choice.

I'm worried about SIDS but I find it really saddening that some people are so anxious about their babies. I gasp sometimes go for a shower when DS is asleep. Or sometimes if he's asleep on me, I'll let him stay asleep on my tummy/chest instead of putting him down as he wakes easily.
I'm sure someone will be along any minute now to say if they knew where I lived, they'd call social services on me.
Sometimes I wonder if it's really all anxious parents saying this stuff or if some people are virtue signalling while never really following the advice they give. I bet most of them go around the supermarket/to eat out with their baby in the carseat for hours.

This thread has reminded me that I used to go to the toilet while holding my baby

"Sometimes I wonder if it's really all anxious parents saying this stuff or if some people are virtue signalling while never really following the advice they give."

I think it's a mixture of the two. I had horrific postnatal anxiety and became obsessed with every tiny movement on the room thermometer. But, yeah, I think some of the posters who come out with stuff like "I just couldn't live with myself if I had sex during pregnancy/ left my baby for 60 seconds to do a wee/ had a glass of wine while my teenager was at a sleepover and something happened. After all, it's only 18 years of your life. You can drink wine/ have sex with your husband/ go to the toilet when they've left home. But I guess we're all different" are just twats.

So you've emailed them just to call anxious parents "OTT and ridiculous". Nice. These parents are being over cautious but could have anxiety, PND, could have lost previous children etc and you're, at best, being unhelpful. You didn't email to bring information to make these parents feel less anxious or ask the lullaby trust about accessing information or how they get information out to people. You did it to post here to try and be "right" or whatever.

I brought the information to show that the professional bodies associated with preventing SIDs never meant for guidelines to be interpreted in that way and to highlight that mindset is likely to contribute to a cycle of struggling with adjustment, anxiety and PND.

I used to be left in my pram in the garden while mum got on with stuff. But then I am old, and things were different in the olden tymes...

This is B. Daft, well you shouldn't sleep then either, just in case something happens to baby. Babies need to sleep in a separate cot next to the bed for a while, then be in their own room by one year old. I can understand if they have croup or breathing difficulties you might want to leave the loo door open, but it would need to be exceptional circumstancies. Putting that much burden on yourself as a parent, will prevent you doing your job effectively.

As a new dad, its fascinating to read through some of the posts, the advice (often contradictory) etc. Having just spent two days listening to midwives saying "you must X" and "you must not Y" was enough to drive anyone to think that their baby is going to die the instant you put it down and turn your back for a second, or will die of poisoning if you use a bottle of milk 2 minutes after the hour that the instructions say to use it within.

I'm actually very grateful that at 2 days old and freshly home from hospital she's spent the last hour quietly lying on a playmat on the living room floor while i've caught up with work emails, unpacked a load of boxes (baby monitor, steriliser, etc) and generally pottered in and out of the room, while my partner catches up on some much needed sleep upstairs!

I cant help thinking that in years gone by... including when we were kids, there was a lot less paranoia! I'm not suggesting that we should all leave newborn babies alone in the house while we drift off to the pub, then come back and feed them a bottle of milk thats been open on the side for 2 weeks... but everything seems to be so prescriptive that people who are already anxious are going to very quickly be led into paranoia.