Work things happening after work, expectation that child-free people will make up the numbers

[PiddleOff]

At work there are sometimes events organised outside of work hours in the evenings.

There's an expectation that people will attend these. It's not workloaded or contracted but it's still expected. For example, if there's an invited speaker, it'd look terrible if no-one turned up for their talk so there's an expectation that people will show up.

When these events are organised, there's a group of colleagues who have children who are incredibly quick off the mark to say that they can't make it because of child-care commitments. Fair enough.

However, the burden then falls on child-free people (like me) to make up the numbers. There's an assumption that us child-free people, or at least some of us, will always be at these events.

I have said before that I'm not able to attend events outside of work hours (without giving a reason) and I've raised the issue that events outside of work are an EDI issue anyway so shouldn't be happening. However, the expectation that us child-free people are there persists to the point where some of us (including me) have had comments on our willingness to engage/be collegiate.

I don't know what my AIBU is really, I just wanted to rant about this and see if anyone else has had a similar experience and how they dealt with this.

It is poor. You clearly work in HE!

I don't get why people are questioning OP. Surely you can all see it's unfair to expect childfree people to do work instead of people with children purely on those grounds? If you commit to a job, then you should do the job.

Soupdragon no, it just comes under "and other days and times subject to operational requirements"

This is why I'll do a Saturday for a colleague with a child - I dislike it, but it doesn't cost me any additional money or hassle in arranging cover etc. Likewise, I'll also do Saturday for colleagues with no children who live elsewhere, and would have to pay for an extra night in a hotel etc. It's not expected, but it's appreciated, and I know I'd think it a kindly gesture if the boot was on the other foot.

Do the parents, who cannot attend any evening events, get penalised for their non-attendance? Does it adversely affect their promotion prospects? Are they talked about in any kind of disparaging way? Do they miss out on vital job or career contacts or knowledge?
Every worker doing a similar or comparable job should be contracted to the same or similar terms and expectations.
It shouldn’t be “different” for anyone.
Who can judge whether someone’s caring, whether it be for child, children, parents, disabled spouse, elderly relative, ailing friend, menagerie etc, is any more worthy than another? When all the exceptions are given permission to give these events a miss, isn’t it discriminatory to expect the few people remaining to attend instead?
If there’s a rota, surely everyone would have to be on it?

OP - there was an event at my workplace this evening. Only me or another colleague could cover. I had to collect my cat from the vet, they'd have charged a huge fee to keep him overnight. I gave them the opportunity to pay the fee but they declined.

The other person had to do nursery pick up.

I don't know what happened because I went home. Sometimes you need to say no.

As someone who left academia after having a child, I reckon you are almost certainly overestimating the extent to which people think it's ok for the people (women) with children not to go to evening seminars. They don't think it's fine, they just know they shouldn't openly say that.

childless people expected to do the evening seminars (& weekend Open Days) yet at the same seen as slightly less than fully human because we don't have children there are LOTS of childfree academics. In our department all the female professors were childfree until about 2 years ago. There are lots of men with children but in the main this doesn't affect their writing/attendance at international conferences, evening seminars, I've lost count of the amount of men I know with equally clever wives who are taking a backseat, not pushing forward, doing a bit of contract work, doing the kids thing to support their husband and his 'brilliant career'. I don't know one, not one academic couple where the woman is in the higher position. Women drop out at every level at a higher rate than men as you move up the hierarchy even though 50% of PhDs are female.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48531699

I agree it would be great if some of the institutional reasons why women end up dropping out/behind in the promotion stakes were removed, and evening seminars/socializing would definitely be one of them, people do notice if you don't attend but if you have kids to pick up you just have to suck that up and carry on feeling a bit disapproved of (which is how you feel right now).

If you chatted with others in the dept I bet many would feel the same as you, and that lots would welcome a change in the timing of these events.

I agree that they have no right to expect anyone to work for free, not just parents. But if the rationale for that is “I have commitments” rather than “I am not being paid”, Holby doesn’t rank alongside someone’s children, and employers aren’t going to listen to that.

But why would an employer know? "I'm sorry, I have something else planned," should be sufficient. They don't have a right to know the details. They could ask if you can rearrange, but in the end, you don't have to tell them why or set the recorder.

I would assume most people wouldn't prioritise watching a TV programme over childcare or similar, but it is up to individuals what they do, and they don't have to explain themselves about how they spend their time outside of contracted hours, and work can't interrogate them about it - because they shouldn't be making expectations and assumptions based on whether people are parents or not, for voluntary, out of work activities.

Good will for such things tends to work most when people have a perception that it's done fairly. If people don't feel that, as in OP's case, because non-parents aren't being treated the same, then it shouldn't be a surprise that people react in the opposite direction, and just refuse, but if the decision is made by someone who doesn't recognise it's potentially discriminatory, they might not be very perceptive about likely responses, either.

I’m not in academia but in an industry where after work events are sometimes held (networking or charity events) and I think never attending does show a lack of engagement - also from the parents; but the issue is no one will ever say this out loud.
The approach I take is occasionally going, get my face seen and be seen as an (occasionally) willing participant. That way there no come back on me.

In our department all the female professors were childfree until about 2 years ago. There are lots of men with children but in the main this doesn't affect their writing/attendance at international conferences, evening seminars, I've lost count of the amount of men I know with equally clever wives who are taking a backseat, not pushing forward, doing a bit of contract work, doing the kids thing to support their husband and his 'brilliant career'

Indeed.

But look at your assumption that female academics have to be childfree to be professors.

Women are not he same as men in this situation - these women have sacrificed massively to become professors and should not receive the treatment they generally get - the kinds of things the OP complains about in her posts.

Women get it both ways - childless, they are treated with suspicion (by other women as well as men), and with children, they are assumed that they'll take a back seat in their career.

And all female academics are paid less than equivalent male peers, with or without children.

There is a strong correlation between women academics (and high-level roles in other fields) and childlessness, noticeably different from men at similar levels in this fields.

But look at your assumption that female academics have to be childfree to be professors

I didn't say that at all, I personally know lots of female professors with children! I was pointing out that until the very recent past, women in academia often were childfree- there is also a strong association between being childfree and level of education (the Lucy Worsley effect) so I'm a bit surprised but perhaps not shocked to find out that not having children is viewed with some suspicion as well. I can believe it though.

Can you get time off in lieu for attending the event?

If childcare commitments are a genuine reason for your colleagues' absence from departmental research seminars, then you should club together with them and push for them to be scheduled on Wednesday afternoons, when the timetable is clear. (Within the Athena Swan core hours...)

However you'll probably find this reveals that childcare commitments are merely a watertight (and entirely valid!) alibi for people not wanting to stay late to hear someone's dreary draft conference paper.

Collegiality, by it's nature, cannot be forced. Go to the seminars or don't go, but don't boycott them because others don't bother. It doesn't work like that.

I think even with kids you should be flexible in attending events outside of work hours. Flexibility has to work both ways though.
I’m not clear if the content of the events benefits professional development as well, which surely most people are interested in?

I made up a fake nephew in my old job that I had to collect so that I didn't get expected to do everything. I thought making up my own child was a bit of a stretch.

Do it over lunch instead - that is what my company does and gets great attendance

I think it depends on what you want for your role there... Ultimately they can't force you to go to the events but if you don't it may make you look less committed than those that do, all other things being equal (like your actual performance at work), so you will probably be more likely to be passed over for promotion or pay rises.

Parents with kids may also be passed over for promotions etc as well for the same reason, but whether it's fair or not I think it is only human that your managers will see family commitment (ie they just can't go) as different to I just don't want to go. It would be the same for a non parent who was a carer or who was studying for a qualification in the evening.

It absolutely is an EDI issue because those who can and are willing to give up their own evenings will be perceived as “more engaged”. You say the parents get a “free pass” but in my experience they don’t. Nothing is said out loud because that’s overt discrimination but they are mentally filed as “mummy track” by the powers that be.

If you’re an academic, take a look at your academic workload plan. If you’re up to hours you simply don’t have space in your calendar. If you’re not up to hours and it’s a topic in your area go along and you can put it in your annual appraisal as CPD. I suspect there are plenty of parents there and there are only a few saying they can’t attend because of childcare. My ex and I are academics and we used to get the list of talks and divide them between us. Sometimes they’re really good!