Work things happening after work, expectation that child-free people will make up the numbers

[PiddleOff]

At work there are sometimes events organised outside of work hours in the evenings.

There's an expectation that people will attend these. It's not workloaded or contracted but it's still expected. For example, if there's an invited speaker, it'd look terrible if no-one turned up for their talk so there's an expectation that people will show up.

When these events are organised, there's a group of colleagues who have children who are incredibly quick off the mark to say that they can't make it because of child-care commitments. Fair enough.

However, the burden then falls on child-free people (like me) to make up the numbers. There's an assumption that us child-free people, or at least some of us, will always be at these events.

I have said before that I'm not able to attend events outside of work hours (without giving a reason) and I've raised the issue that events outside of work are an EDI issue anyway so shouldn't be happening. However, the expectation that us child-free people are there persists to the point where some of us (including me) have had comments on our willingness to engage/be collegiate.

I don't know what my AIBU is really, I just wanted to rant about this and see if anyone else has had a similar experience and how they dealt with this.

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A professional job is rarely 9-5 monday-friday. I'm sure you're paid accordingly.

I can't speak for the OP, but there are many, many workplaces that don't pay enough to justify the extra commitment.

If you can't make it don't go, if you don't want to don't go, but if you would find it interesting and it would help your career go.

I find the stance "I won't do anything outside work hours" quite inflexible, I have always worked in roles where sometimes you need to do a bit extra and I have in the long run been rewarded for it - pay increases, good bonuses and promotions.

I wouldn't worry what everyone else is doing I would focus on you, want you want to do and focus on your career. I would question any promotion opportunities to someone who is so inflexible.

OP I've had this and a group of us went to management and said it was a form of discrimination against childfree people.

It was addressed with a kind of rota done in advance. It's shit though, I agree. We actually emails saying "the only excuse for non attendance is childcare". I pointed out that many of us will have elder care duties and work wouldn't know, but tbh it's just wrong to have these expectations.

Unfortunately there is a difference between someone working to rule on principle and someone doing their best to work within constraints of school, childcare etc. The parents/carers are already living lives of such huge compromise that someone just saying "i don't want to go because I don't want to" actually comes across as quite luxurious and a bit petty.

BUT BUT BUT you are also right that the system is unfair -life expects impossible things. For example workers are expected to have daily flex around a 5.30ish finish at work while a nursery has a hard stop at 6pm and travel is busy and unpredictable. You are expected to give up some evenings and you perceive that parents don't have to.

I would suggest campaigning for a wholesale review of working hours and events at your company. Completely agree with the consultant above saying evening events are old fashioned, it's a really good point.

What I wouldn't do is think of yourself as specially hard done by - you get flexible time in practice, and your life seems not too full of insoluble tensions.

Some roles have an expectation that you'll attend out-of-hours events. Presumably they aren't just jollies. They'll either be to build bonds with partners/clients or to educate on various issues/client bases. You can get the time back as your employers are flexible so I think YABU.
You're disengaged but bristling when people spot it. Own your disengagement or try to find another field that doesn't involve this approach.
Like a PP, I was a journalist/PR and often went to meetings/events or ran into the office on days off (eg if there was a natural disaster that needed covered). Some roles demand that kind of flexibility. If it doesn't suit you, then maybe you need to reconsider the role you're in.

@montenuit My job's alright, there are good points and bad points. I don't have any particular desire to get ahead. I am required to apply for promotion every year and I'm expecting to be promoted in the next couple of years but I'm not actively seeking it.

@NovoJester Yes, we have a similar thing in our contract but worded differently. It's not that I object to attending after-work events per se (I mean, I do because I don't think events should be happening outside of working hours in the first place), what I object to is the assumption that child-free people will attend in place of some of my colleagues who are parents who make absolutely clear that they won't attend anything after work.

@TeddTess My job is weird. I'm an academic but I also run a company based on my academic work which buys me out of my academic job for two days a week. On top of this, I also work one day a week for a different company as a consultant. So, I'm an academic and employed by a university but I don't do academic work every day if that makes any sense at all.

It is shitty and unfair. It's also a mark of a generally dodgy work culture that there's an expectation to do such unimportant things as proof you want to get on.

I guess your choices are either to carry on taking a stand, and ideally try and ally with some of those who have caring responsibilities, build a coalition. After all, some of them may actually want to go, so why can't things be done during work hours? Or go to one or two and spend the time ensuring you are highly visible.

@bringincrazyback Exactly. I am well paid compared with a lot of people but under huge amounts of stress and pressure. I don't think I'm recompensed enough but others would argue that I am so it's kind of a moot point

So people without children automatically have no responsibilities? Get real.
No not people without children, the op, by her own admission.

There is no reason for you to be treated judged or regarded differently to parents.

How dare they raise their eyebrows at you leaving when parents do? Either everyone should go the extra mile or no one.

"The difference is the parents have responsibilities you just come across as lazy and unwilling to put the work in."

Well, OP could have any number of responsibilities too... might be a carer, a volunteer, a community leader, have a second job...

why is being a parent the only time you can opt-out?

@KatyCarrCan

Thing is I don't mind being flexible. I would be willing to go to things after work very occasionally. My gripe is with my employer expecting child-free people to attend every single one of these after-work events because people with children refuse to do so.

A presumption that someone without kids is automatically more flexible than someone with kids is not accurate. Plenty of people have commitments which they can't move (caring responsibilities etc) or where to move them would incur cost (dog walking, not attending something which has already been paid for)

My gripe is with my employer expecting child-free people to attend every single one of these after-work events because people with children refuse to do so.

and that is perfectly reasonable. In my industry it is accepted that on an everyday basis some need to head off promptly for nursery pick up etc.. others have other commitments on various evenings. Some are more flexible / less bothered about leaving on time. However there certainly isn't a parent/non parent division! All would be expected to do some out of hours work. To not bother would show you had no ambition nor commitment to our clients who sometimes need things out of hours.

Haven't RTFT but I am going to guess you're an academic and this is a university!

Unfortunately in academia there just is an expectation that you will work weekends, evenings etc as standard and there is a big thing about 'commitment'.

We periodically have working groups dedicated to rationalising workload. These come and go like the seasons but have not noticeable effect

A professional job is rarely 9-5 monday-friday. I'm sure you're paid accordingly.

I'm in a so-called professional career with managerial responsibilities. I am paid significantly less than the national average so it doesn't always follow.

OP, I hate this aspect of corporate culture. And the raised eyebrows at leaving at 5pm is so backward-looking. Sounds like your organisation values presenteeism over outputs. Sadly if it does, your attempt to have a healthy work-life balance probably will count against you if it comes to promotions etc. Only you can weigh up whether that is going to bother you enough to either change your stance towards these events or look for a job somewhere more understanding of their colleagues having a life outside work.

But you said you don't need to attend all of them because it's only the ones for your field/area that they expect you to attend. You're too focused on other employees tbh. Pro rata your colleagues with DCs may have attended more events than you, if they attended all the events when they were child-free.
As long as some of your colleagues see the flexible working as going both ways then you're always going to appear less committed. You're so focused on the hours, you're not even contemplating whether the events are beneficial to your career knowledge or progression.

I suppose it is recognised that childcare is not usually a flexible or movable commitment, and you don’t go because you don’t want to. I’m not saying you are being totally unreasonable, but the two aren’t the same.

I must admit that I thought that this sort of thinking went out with the 20th century. At my work (and, yes, I'm at a professional/managerial level), we get told off for working later than normal finishing time if there is no deadline to warrant it. The only evening events ever arranged are things like union women's groups which are around 6pm.

Around 20 years ago, I worked as personal secretary to the deputy director of a very large quasi-governmental organisation. Her attitude was that if people are regularly working over the standard houts, then there is either a problem with the job or a problem with the person, and that management should strive to fix the problem as jobs should be done in the standard hours.

Houts? HOURS! 😁

BlingLoving

^^

What bling said is interesting. Times have changed, how relevant are evening schmoozy dos?

Sorry but I think YABU,

Hmm, yes and no. I mean probably technically we do but our work is very autonomous so no-one bothers claiming time in lieu as we can just take a random morning off/in lieu and no-one would ever notice or care.

Sounds like your work has a degree of give and take, offering flexibility, but you just dont want to give.

If you're in academia, have a look at your university's work-life balance policy - there may well be a clause about 'core hours'. Basically, if it's something you need to be at, it should be organised during core hours, if it's outside of that it's discretionary. A little bit of give and take is a good idea, so try to attend where feasible, but it shouldn't be demanded.