Work things happening after work, expectation that child-free people will make up the numbers

[PiddleOff]

At work there are sometimes events organised outside of work hours in the evenings.

There's an expectation that people will attend these. It's not workloaded or contracted but it's still expected. For example, if there's an invited speaker, it'd look terrible if no-one turned up for their talk so there's an expectation that people will show up.

When these events are organised, there's a group of colleagues who have children who are incredibly quick off the mark to say that they can't make it because of child-care commitments. Fair enough.

However, the burden then falls on child-free people (like me) to make up the numbers. There's an assumption that us child-free people, or at least some of us, will always be at these events.

I have said before that I'm not able to attend events outside of work hours (without giving a reason) and I've raised the issue that events outside of work are an EDI issue anyway so shouldn't be happening. However, the expectation that us child-free people are there persists to the point where some of us (including me) have had comments on our willingness to engage/be collegiate.

I don't know what my AIBU is really, I just wanted to rant about this and see if anyone else has had a similar experience and how they dealt with this.

We have this with meetings. People with childcare leave at 5 on the dot but those without kids/empty nesters stay until the meeting is done at 5:30/5:45.

One of my ex bosses was a workaholic and suggested that everyone come in on a weekend for discussions and whatnot. There was a painful silence (one of my colleagues worked at M&S over the weekend to be able to afford occasional treats like the theatre). Then one of the doctors spoke out and said it was out of the question because he played the piano at the weekend. Bless him!

@LizzieBananas Yes, we have this too. I always leave at 5 on the dot when the parents do. The parents leaving at 5 on the dot is seen as perfectly acceptable but there are raised eyebrows about why I also leave at 5 on the dot.

The difference is the parents have responsibilities you just come across as lazy and unwilling to put the work in.

I know someone who used to say she had caring responsibilities so couldn't attend. And she did, her cat , she just never explicitly said so.

The issue isnt parents its management. I dont wish to do "optional" extras outside of my office time. I think for me thats more an age thing, I didnt mind when younger when there was a social side to attending functions etc.

Just say no- stop blaming working parents.

@mydcaremarvel
Why on earth should childfree people have to work harder than people with children for the same pay?!? (Or non pay for these events)

I sometimes advise firms on internal communications and one of the things I tell them is to consider when and what events they lay on. There's been a culture for a long time of evening events, often accompanied by drinks etc as a positive thing that builds team spirit etc.

As an employee, I think you'd be silly not to make an effort to attend at least one or two of these a year because unfortunately there IS an expectation.

As a consultant, I tell firms that all evening events are very 20th century and they need to get with the programme. Many of these initiatives were designed for environments in which the people these were laid on for were fee-earning (often highly paid) people who valued the free drinks, foods and activities. But things have shifted and we, luckily, now realise that a more engaged and informed work force across the board is a useful thing. But we're still using the same tactics to engage with them. And it doesn't necessarily work.

eg non-fee earners are more likely to be primary care givers for children so unlikely to be up for evening events. Similarly, many people these days have other commitments in the evenings from care responsibilities to training for major sporting events, social engagements etc. In the City, many people don't drink anymore so wine tasting and the like are no longer appropriate.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers Please don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not blaming working parents. I think they're absolutely correct to refuse to attend stuff after work, to leave a 5 on the dot etc. I wholly support them doing this. My beef isn't with working parents, it's with a culture and management which expects child-free people to 'make up' for working parents' absence form after-work events.

@MyDcAreMarvel I put the work in during working hours that I'm actually paid for.

I should say that a few years ago I absolutely did used to go to some of these post-work events for the sake of appearances. I got so pissed off with the assumption that, as one of the child-free people, I'd be there every single time that I just blanket refused to go after a while.

Ok so in this situation you have to be a bit bold and clear with the people organising. Instead of sitting around moaning - go round, speak to other people who feel like you do, get the views together then take them to the person who organises.

Say - this is a bad idea as it causes stress for the organiser worrying if people will come - and we would much rather they were at lunchtime (for example) so we can be sure we can attend.

You need to get people to all agree to refuse to attend.

oh then I agree- but i do not get why you dont just refuse if its optional and of no benefit to your progession

I remember having an argument with my old boss about this. Travel to work was a three hour journey (had to take it, uni placement)
He wanted me to attend a function that finished at 8:30. It meant I wouldnt be home until midnight. It also meant a walk to a deserted station waiting for a train that could be cancelled and be stuck somewhere. I flat out refused at first, then said I’ll go but the company has to pay for a taxi all the way home or a hotel stay. That was wrong. I didn’t go, one of the women did back me up when I said “I don’t want to travel home late on the train” and he didn’t see a problem with it.

I'd just say you had caring responsibilities for an elderly parent or sibling/ step child etc.
How often are we talking about here? if its once of twice a year then I'd just go. If it was all the time then I'd just say as above.
Everyone's time is equally important.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I've said upthread that I do refuse to go and this is raising eyebrows and calling into question my commitment.

I have this problem - have a disabled child who cannot be left alone at home. No way I can attend evening stuff. I work four hours per day so I am home when he gets home from school. We have an away day every year which I decline because of this. 7 am until 7 pm , there is no way I can attend. I get scowled at and talked about behind my back but my son is more important. My working hours are 9 until 2pm. I stick to that rigidly and I am lucky to have this job

@Boysey45 I get your point but i don't want to reproduce the idea that people can only get out of these things if they have caring responsibilities (for children, parents, siblings, whatever). I refuse to go because I don't want to. I don't owe my employer any sort of explanation because what I do in my spare time is none of their business (be it caring for family or being involved in hardcore S&M).

"sorry i have plans"...let them raise an eyebrow

We have a clause in our contracts that says “any other reasonable requirement”. I don’t have kids and have had a similar but quite different issue regarding this and holidays, but I know I’m expected to go to some evening events. I also know people with kids will go to some as well when they can - that may be next year, they may have gone last year.

To just refuse to go to any is a bit silly.

Oh and evening events aren’t in my contract specifically but they are a reasonable request and part of job. If I worked to the job list in my contract I wouldn’t have a job for long!

What sort of job are you in? It sounds like a professional one if you are quite autonomous, have mentoring etc.

I think YABU. I also think those with kids are BU. Sometimes you do need to attend things outside of 9-5. If you have kids you have to accept that sometimes you need to sort childcare / partner look after them.

A professional job is rarely 9-5 monday-friday. I'm sure you're paid accordingly.

Basically, there are people at work who are know for being disengaged for all sorts of reasons and I'm one of them because I don't stay after work for events.

I always leave at 5 on the dot when the parents do. The parents leaving at 5 on the dot is seen as perfectly acceptable but there are raised eyebrows about why I also leave at 5 on the dot.

I just don't want to stay after work and I don't see why I should

OP - do you even like your job/industry? Do you want to get ahead? If i was your employer i would assume you weren't that bothered and just doing what you have to do.

It sounds very unfair - I don't think you should feel at all obliged to go if you don't want to. I'm an introvert and socially anxious so I hate to feel pressured to go to these things anyway but even if you just don't want to go you shouldn't have to. Especially if you've already been at work all day, you shouldn't have to give up your evening too.

The difference is the parents have responsibilities you just come across as lazy and unwilling to put the work in.

So people without children automatically have no responsibilities? Get real.

No one should be compelled to attend work events outside of working hours, regardless of whether they physically could or not. If it's a part of someone's job to work these hours, then that's there job, but expecting anyone to give up non-work time unpaid and under duress is awful. As PP said, if people don't want to go to these events, the rationale behind them existing needs to be looked at.