To think that a People Vote has to have 3 options, not just 2

[Bearbehind]

There’s talk of a People Vote, if it ever happened, just being between Boris’s deal or Remain.

I am a massive Remainer but even I think that is a really bad idea.

It has to include No Deal.

Much as I think that’s a shite idea, excluding it from the options will only make things worse.

It should just be a simple majority of the 3.

I remember a time when quite a few of us (and include myself) were smug in the knowledge that UKIP even though the polled a number of votes didn’t have any seats in parliament then one Tory MP defected so they had one

Now looking back I believe it would have been better that they did, the anti EU sentiment may have gathered momentum and they may have received a substantial amount of seats but I don’t think that would have happened as the vast majority of us (on both sides of the argument) didn’t give a huge amount of thought to the EU - it never had been as important to us as to people on the continent given our history

The referendum didn’t have to happen. Election campaign promises have been broken before. MP’s didn’t have to vote to support it and they could and should have certainly discussed and debated what the terms would be of the referendum at some length but they didn’t - I fail to understand how they could collectively be so unprofessional

I can’t blame just Cameron

As much as I want this to stop, having another vote is a really bad idea, there are far too many totally entrenched in their totally incorrect views and nothing will change them.

I despair at what is being said by the leavers. I think I am too sad now though.

It was infighting amongst the euro sceptic Tories and the less eurosceptic Tories that I understood to be the reason for the referendum. So they are initially to blame but I think it's split labour numpties that are the reason for it rumbling on for 3 years. I don't think they know what they want - and the snp and dup fan the flames. We are leaving and they need to accept this and get the country back on its feet. Initially Tories cocked things up under May.

No deal shouldn’t be on the ballot as it isn’t a real thing. It’s being sold as getting on with it and getting Brexit done etc but the only real options are remain or leave. If we leave we still need a “deal” and voting on whether we should negotiate the deal before withdrawal and leave in an orderly manner or crash out and negotiate a deal afterwards while everything is chaotic and awful is just not a thing that a whipped up pissed off public should be voting on, especially as the “vote crash out and destroy the economy” is likely to be lead by known liars who have form for cheating in referenda campaigns.

If we leave we will be dealing with this shit for decades. “Get Brexit Done” is a massively disingenuous slogan, even by Johnson’s standards.

You can’t have other stuff on the ballot like stay in the CU or Canada+ or Norway+ because we haven’t negotiated that. It’s remain, Johnson’s deal or something even shitter hammered out in the years of chaos following a crash out.

The whole thing is like a student project when they hand the questionnaire out and everyone says “you aren’t going to get useful data from that, you need to change it” and they plow ahead anyway. Cameron should have had his supervisor check it before sending it out instead of being a smug bastard and saying “I never lose”. The wee shite

It has to include No Deal.

It really shouldn’t include No Deal. How is this is a choice that would benefit anyone apart from disaster capitalists?

And the Brexit papers would be selling it to people as some kind of good choice .

I also agree with everything that @Daaps said.

So I agree with the binary choice between remaining or leaving with whatever WA and political declaration is voted on by parliament.

Not sure how the will of the people brigade would be able to call this undemocratic. This would be more democracy.

Though I think in general referenda are terrible ideas and we should stick to representative democracy, but this is the mess we are now in so...

It's not democratic to include remain because that already lost in a democratic vote. Delaying it for over 3 years doesn't make it democratic to have a revote. Nor does it become democratic because remainers insist people only voted leave because they didn't really understand.

It hasn’t been delayed for three years. Once Article 50 was triggered there was a two deadline to reach agreement. That has proved difficult because it is a thorny and difficult issue. However anyone voted.

What leavers and remainers understood three years ago, or what they understand now is not part of the argument.

It's not democratic to include remain because that already lost in a democratic vote.

You mean the vote based on no information on what it would actually entail, other than outright lies?

Very democratic. How can you be insistent on proceeding with something that we now know to be damaging when people were deliberately misled about the implications and consequences of that vote?

It's not democratic to include remain because that already lost in a democratic vote
What democratic vote was that? It wasn't democratic!

It's not democratic to include remain because that already lost in a democratic vote.

That's rather like saying we should exclude e.g. Labour from a General Election, or the choice to re-nationalise railways, because that option lost 5, 10, 30, 50 years ago. When should options become available again?

We're in a very different place now. It's an entirely different context. It's anti-democratic to remove choices now because of (especially ill-informed) choices in the past

1. it wasn't a democratic vote.... Cambridge analytica.

2.) it was 3.5 years ago.

3)the people who it will impact most need to be able to respond.

4. it's a sign of democracy when people can change their minds

5.) people are ALLOWED to protest.... If people hadn't taken to the streets to protest - women wouldn't have had vote...

The problem is that splits the leave in two. Which is not fair and I am a staunch remainer

The single transferable vote would eliminate that problem.

Slightly off topic, but I was very disappointed when the referendum on the voting system didn't come out in favour of the STV system for general elections. As it is now, with the first past the post system, we can have a government in power that most people didn't vote for.

STV will inevitably mean the WA. Just think about it.

Remainers will want the WA if remain doesn't win.

Leavers will want the WA if leave doesn't win.

You'll not get any remainers wanting leave nor leavers wanting remain.

It was 3.5 years ago but that wasn't because of some unforeseen outside force or disaster - it was time wasting by parliamentarians who didn't like the result, and other stuff. So there isn't justification for another vote.

Time wasting... negotiating the biggest event since the Second World War is time wasting?? Just in case it needs saying again, Brexiteers were amongst those parliamentarians who didn't like the result.

You ain't seen nothin' yet. This is just the start - the Withdrawal Agreement, not Withdrawal itself.