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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that a People Vote has to have 3 options, not just 2

141 replies

Bearbehind · 20/10/2019 18:07

There’s talk of a People Vote, if it ever happened, just being between Boris’s deal or Remain.

I am a massive Remainer but even I think that is a really bad idea.

It has to include No Deal.

Much as I think that’s a shite idea, excluding it from the options will only make things worse.

It should just be a simple majority of the 3.

OP posts:
Sunnyuplands · 20/10/2019 21:26

I think it's a terrible idea.

I do not know how people could think it is a good idea.

It might cause the actual breakdown of our political system?

Sunnyuplands · 20/10/2019 21:31

Really the campaign there's exaggeration on both sides.

There was more exaggeration in remain than leave.

That would only affect fence people.
Most leavers didn't like what they saw and lived during membership of the eu.

That's why they voted leave.

Finally here, how sweet of you to keep iron control of your voice whilst talking to your 'cabbie' leaver, who told you your 'genuine' question was a big one.

Well done.

Maybe when your feet are rested you could try and track him down for a proper re education session?

HeresMe · 20/10/2019 21:34

The remain voters don't understand that life was pretty shit in a lot of leave northern areas, it's still shit, you might vote for change as if it's better then well done, other wise it can't get much worse.

OddBoots · 20/10/2019 21:40

"Any choice winning by one third is better than the alternative which would be a Remain / Leave choice with 2 types of Leave after that.

In that scenario, just over one quarter get to decide."

That is not how the maths works. Everyone gets to vote on both questions, people who vote remain can still say what kind of leave they want if they lose the leave/remain mandatory vote.

TrainspottingWelsh · 20/10/2019 21:45

Any referendum should be no deal or Johnson's deal. Remain already lost in a democratic vote.

It's not acceptable for remain politicians, and some members of the population to spend 3 years doing their best to delay, confuse and prevent brexit. And then say we need another referendum because the leave voters were all thick racists and some might have died by now. Tough shit.

I'm a remainer btw. But also believe in democracy. And if anyone is to blame for brexit, it isn't solely the leavers. It's every remainer and politician that dismissed their perfectly valid problems as just being stupid uneducated racists.

Voting remain doesn't convey some higher intellect or moral fibre. And voting leave isn't on a par with joining the kkk, where us morally superior remainers need iron control to converse.

CleverLoginName · 20/10/2019 21:51

If we had a second referendum and If it was to remain would you want to be fully integrated in the EU with the euro, not vetoing or opting out? That's the current situation. We are 'in' the EU but also 'not in'.

At least if we leave we know where we are ......

YobaOljazUwaque · 20/10/2019 22:07

I agree it should be multiple choices but it would be a terrible idea to have the result be simple majority FPTP. That guarantees that the majority are dissatisfied. It should be "order of preference" single transferrable vote which is by far the most sensible way to measure agreement in complex situations like this.

The choices should be

A Revoke & Remain
B Softer Brexit (eg Norway++ option/common market)
C Boris's Deal
D No Deal

None of these options will get over 50% but whichever option gets the fewest votes, their vote transfers over to their second choice. Then if no option has more than 50% the third most popular option gets eliminated and everyone gets that vote put towards whichever they prefer out of the two most popular options.

This is the only sensible way of doing it, and means that whatever happens, the majority of people may not exactly be happy but at least know that their least favourite option was eliminated.

I am an ardent remainer and have lost track of the number of anti-Brexit protests I have participated in. However I would stop protesting and accept Brexit if a Brexit option won a fairly-run referendum like this. I'd suggest that before any campaigning starts, Parliament create a specific offence of undue influence or dishonesty in elections or referenda with a heavy penalty for the slightest hyperbole or conjecture presented as fact.

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 22:21

I basically agree with Yoba, but I'd add prefer to add May's deal into the list as well.

JulietTango · 20/10/2019 22:25

To those saying leave won fair and square, I will just say
Cambridge Analytica have been proven to have influenced the referendum on behalf of the leave campaign

chinateapot · 20/10/2019 22:32

Do any leave voters disagree with the idea of a referendum with three options on the ballot paper - leave and stay in the customs union, leave with Johnson’s deal, leave with no deal? So all outcomes would be leave - and all versions of leave that were discussed pre 2016 vote - but we don’t know what version people voted for.

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 22:35

I disagree with that as a Remain voter. Remain has to be back on the options list, with an STV.

JulietTango · 20/10/2019 22:35

So are you only asking people who want to leave to vote? Because i wouldn't vote for any of those

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 20/10/2019 22:39

Have just been reading about Labour’s apparent now proposals

So late in the day Hmm who are they kidding they know this won’t go through parliament. They have had over three years and now they come up with this

The only referendum that may be supported in parliament is that on a deal or leaving with no deal

chinateapot · 20/10/2019 22:40

I agree! I’d much rather see remain on the ballot paper. But I’d rather have a vote on what version of leave we get than have it decided this way. And I don’t see how anyone could claim that wasn’t respecting the result of the referendum. So curious to know if leave would also have issues with that referendum

Figmentofmyimagination · 20/10/2019 22:47

On the numbers, the vote to leave was not “won” by struggling northern towns but instead by eg affluent voters in Dorset and Devon. I hate this persistent lying fixing the blame for this mess on a few urban northern cities.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=eOMiUONDLno

londonrach · 20/10/2019 22:48

Apart from mn i dont know hardly anyone who voted. Remain. I think if they had another vote which they shouldnt as already had the peoples vote there a huge increase in leave. Anyway not us to decide...

Figmentofmyimagination · 20/10/2019 22:54

Really we should have a solution that also allows Scotland to stay in the single market and the customs union, to prevent gifting an unfair advantage to Northern Ireland. As Dominic Raab says (head on desk) Northern Ireland should appreciate that they are getting a ‘cracking good deal’ because they alone are being allowed to stay in the customs union and single market under Johnson’s surrender deal.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 20/10/2019 22:55

That is because there is more people in the south that’s why higher numbers in the south voted

But that does not take away the problem for labour where many labour seats voted to leave and in high numbers - that’s good news for the Brexit party

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 23:02

Hello, we in the Midlands exist. Large leave vote in the Midlands - it is not a bed of roses there either. I'm getting fed up of Northerners thinking they're the only people with problems.

HeresMe · 21/10/2019 00:09

I'm saying what I experience in the north I can't comment on Midlands so feel free

caringcarer · 21/10/2019 00:16

We already had the leave or remain vote and the UK voted to leave. Now we could have a how do we leave voter May's deal, Boris deal or no deal on paper.

ineedaholidaynow · 21/10/2019 00:32

How do people think lives will improve in the poorer areas who voted leave? Why do they think extra money will be given to them by the government once we are out of the EU. Given that it is pretty much certain that prices will rise once we leave won’t their lives just get harder.

Maybe if we do have another referendum they could put by each option the estimated impact on our economy of each one (as long as it was truthful and not like the lies on the bus). Surely the reason why it has so far been impossible to get Brexit through Parliament is because they know it is going to be disastrous for the economy.

SirTobyBelch · 21/10/2019 01:33

It should just be a simple majority of the 3.

I don't think you know what majority means. There is no chance whatsoever that one of those three options would get more than 50% of the vote. As trying to impose the will of 52% of voters on the other 48% has caused such huge divisions, what effect do you suppose imposing the will of 36% on the other 64% would have?

ErrolTheDragon · 21/10/2019 01:43

There should be 3 questions (remain, deal, no deal) but with a second preference mechanism.

Anothernotherone · 21/10/2019 06:07

HeresMe it will indeed get worse for the group of leave voters you describe if low skilled workers lose the rights and social protections the EU law gives them. That's what will happen under Boris' deal or no deal.

Boris claims to be a paternalistic one nation conservative, but Boris claims whatever he thinks will get him most power - Brexit won't benefit anyone but the free market capitalists who want fewer workers rights and protections, or in the worst case scenario of course disaster capitalists...