To be really upset about this?

[Wayfair2020]

Background: I'm a very shy, quiet person who keeps herself to herself.

All my children in a show and on Friday we watched the dress rehearsal. This is the first show at this theatre group my children have done. Before the start of the show, children came on to the stage and posed for photos (for info, no permission was asked from parents) . Dress rehearsal starts, one of my children comes on to stage and I film him. At their old theatre group, this was allowed. About 30 seconds into the dance, all music stops and one of the theatre group leaders calls across the (packed) hall and says 'who was filming the children?' I looked around as I thought something bad had happened only to notice all eyes on me, so I realised it was me being told off here! So I had to put my hand up and say 'it was me'. I was literally mortified. With that, he came marching over, said to me 'Did you have permission from all the parents in here to film their children? No, I didn't think so. I am going to have to watch you delete it Infront of me right now. This is a safeguarding issue, perhaps you need to come to a safeguarding course that we run for chaperones'. I was actually shaking and deleted the video , whilst being watched by I imagine 300 parents and all the children on stage (including one of mine). My 4 year old son was on stage burst into tears as he didn't understand what was going on. The other theatre leader who is a bit nicer came rushing over to my son and then to me to say 'it's our policy not to film, we should have announced it at the start but I need to check your film has been deleted'. So again, Infront of the packed room I had to prove I had deleted it. By this point I was close to tears myself. I am painfully shy and this was awful.

I watched the dress rehearsal and wanted to cry for the whole hour. As I left with my children at the end, the man approached me in the carpark to once again re-iterate his policies and I said that I didn't appreciate the way it was done Infront of everyone and that I was so humiliated. He said (in a horrible way) 'well you are not giving me the chance to apologise as you are walking away from me' (which I was because I was trying not to cry).

So my question is, AIBU for being so upset? I am SO embarassed that I feel like I don't ever want to go back to the place. If I had known their policy, I obviously would not have filmed. As people were taking photos I naively assumed I could film my son .

I feel that all they needed to do was to tell me discreetly?? Like maybe a little tap on the shoulder to say 'sorry, you're not allowed to film' or to come up to me after and fine, ask me to delete it, but do it discreetly.

FWIW, there are hundreds of pictures of the dress rehearsal all over facebook that I didn't give permission for them or other people to take of my children! (I don't mind, but if I did, I was given no opportunity to say so).

Every time I think of it I cringe, and it's really put a downer on my weekend.

Just because someone is filming something doesn’t mean they will put it on social media, (I don’t have Facebook etc) yes they may but if the school has a policy then they need to tell people no filming/photos at the start of the performance or stop the performance and ask if people have been filming to please stop and delete what they’ve filmed/not add to social media as per safeguarding policy of stage school or whatever.

The way this was handled for op was horrible and I’d have felt terrible and upset too. The op is new and they didn’t tell people not to film, the took photos themselves and put on sm. there are ways of speaking to people and getting a point across, singling out one parent in a hall full of people was not it. Our school allows photos etc but no posting on sm. I don’t think they thought you were a pervert I think it’s clearly policy but it helps if they tell new people/state at the start or whatever.

I think they could have handled it a lot better--in a dark theatre it is easy to figure out who is filming and then they could have approached you and had a quiet word, etc. YANBU for being upset, I would have been to if they had yelled at me in front of everyone.

However I do think YABU to film. It is very irritating to be trying to watch a performance and people won't put away their phones. I would have assumed the photo op at the beginning was to discourage this sort of thing.

I'm a fairly confident extrovert and will happily stand up in a room of hundreds of people and speak, but to be publicly confronted in the aggressive manner the OP describes even I would feel uncomfortable; I cannot begin to imagine how this would feel for someone who is shy!

Regardless of what the rules are and whether they have been properly communicated and/understood by the OP, this man is a bully and is bang out of order. I would be making a formal written complaint, setting out exactly how his poor behaviour and handling of the situation made me feel. If nothing else came of it I'd at least hope it made him squirm and feel a degree of how he had made me feel.

People like this need called out on it every single time.

I promise you, nobody will think you’re a pervert. And if their rules are so confused (photos plastered all over social media fine, private video isn’t) there will be many other parents who were on the receiving end of that wanker’s public when their children first joined the group. They will be remembering their own experience, and feeling sorry for you having to experience it too!

*wanker’s public bollocking

If I were in OPs audience, and the teacher hadn’t intervened, I would have stopped the performance myself by marching up to her myself and demanding she cease and desist and delete immediately. It’s sad to see lots of posters being so flippant about what is really needed to protect some children’s safety and even lives.

Why on earth would "marching" up to her and "demanding" be necessary? Why is walking up to someone calmly and having a quiet word not enough? I also don't understand why you would feel the need to make a big thing of stopping the performance since OP could just as easily be asked to stop filming and delete the footage while the children carried on rehearsing. Unless it's about wanting all the other parents to witness your heroics.

I'm a DSL in a school and as a child I was groomed by an adult in a position of trust me so, believe me, I fully understand the need to follow safeguarding policy! But what I really don't understand is this need some people have to publicly humiliate others for their mistakes.

OP, don't worry. I doubt many people in attendance would think badly you. They were probably cringing for you, and if it were me, angry on your behalf that you're were berated so publicly. I despise that sort of thing. It's completely tactless and uncalled for. Now had they announced no filming and you had disregarded that then I could possibly see their point but they didn't and you were unaware of the rule. It may be more common these days yes but is certainly not the case everywhere.

If I was a fellow mum there I would be looking for another dance school for my kids. After all, if the staff act like that then what are they like with the children?

I recently found out that a school one of my kids attends had a whole school assembly and during the prize giving part two 6 year old girls had stopped clapping after a while. A teacher noticed and made them stand up in front of the whole school and individually clap the remainder of the prizes. One of the girls had tears in her eyes with the humiliation. That wasn't punishment, it was bullying by public humiliation. I've had to have a talk with my kids on what to do if they're ever in that situation.

Anyone who uses that tactic to get a point across or to punish is a piece of shit.

I think the leader did the right thing but in the wrong way.

My DDs are adopted and we had a 'no photos/filming' rule.
If there was a photo call for pictures at the start then they would have just stayed off stage for that, and you wouldn't have noticed.

But
a) when you signed for the group you should have had a photos permission form
b) they should have announced 'no filming' at the start
c) given they didn't then they should have quietly asked you to stop and dealt with deleting at the end

Complain, by letter to the school and to the Governors. Let them know that this public peice of bullying has affected your wellbeing, indicate that you might have grounds to sue.

FionaOgre I hope the parents of the children humiliated like that complained. A teacher who had done that to my child would find themselves in all kinds of professional trouble.

OP, this was handled badly and unpleasantly and - if you are absolutely sure you haven't signed any permissions - I would be having a field day with the unauthorised photos IIWY. I do have every sympathy with those whose children can't be photographed/filmed, but I'm not sure why 'marching up' to anyone and 'demanding' things would be necessary, except to make said parent look a little unhinged. Going up to filming parent, calmly explaining the situation and asking for deletion, fine, of course.

Such an openly aggressive attitude to a parent would suggest to me that inhibitions towards behaving similarly or worse to the children would probably be quite low, and I think I'd be looking elsewhere for activities for my child.

pictish, not quite sure of the relevance of your husband's social anxiety here?

It sounds as though someone else complained. He didn't know who had been filming hence had to ask in public. Presumably, making you delete it in public was to reassure the parents who had complained.
I understand how awful you must have felt, and it is their responsibility to announce filming policies at the beginning but I don't think he necessarily handled it badly.I think it was deliberately handled in public so everyone knew it had been dealt with

YANBU - awful way to do it. Easily solved by mentioning it beforehand. He sounds like a complete arse.

'I think it was deliberately handled in public so everyone knew it had been dealt with'

Agree, but the tone he took was completely inappropriate. He treated her like a naughty schoolgirl. He could have said 'I'm sorry we didn't make it clear at the beginning of the rehearsal, but we can't allow filming for safeguarding reasons. Could you delete it now, please, for the parents' peace of mind?' And then he could have thanked OP for deleting and apologised again for not having made it clear. Then she would probably have still been quite embarrassed, but not humiliated.

What a horrid man! Don't worry OP, it's not like they announced it at the start and you chose to ignore it. I'm sure the audience thought he was a bully as well!

@CatteStreet tearful child's parent never complained because they were actually moving away very soon after and she was just glad to have it behind her. The other mum still doesn't know about it and is pretty volatile so would have handed them their arses. Too late to say anything now but it sure as hell should never happen again or I might not be able to keep my gob shut about it.

That sounds awful @Wayfair2020
They are actually wrong and ignorant - it’s the sharing not the picture taking/filming. You should also ask if they have permission to post photos, and they should. They have created their own safeguarding issue.
Also he handled himself very badly and a proper written apology should be given. And they should make an announcement beforehand . I’m sure you weren't the only one filming!

Awful OP.

What a nasty piece of work.

I would be furious at that treatment.

And now you say they have photos in FB which you didn't give permission for

OP, sometimes you have to stand up for yourself.

I would want to know did he have a legal right to demand you delete that recording?

What is the law in this case?

You weren't informed before you did it.

Contact by letter to the Board of Management questioning his public humiliation of you and his demanding you delete the recording.

Ask them when did the get permission to put up photos of the children from parents?

He needs taking down a peg or two.

Channel your annoyance and upset by standing up for yourself.
💐

If the hall was packed and no one else had been filming I would guess you have missed a letter. Because ime there will be lots of parents trying to film/take photos during it.
Parents do seem to feel that "I wouldn't do anything bad with it so it doesn't matter if little me just does it"... I've seen the situation where people have had to be asked several times to stop, and as soon as the person asking moves, back up goes the camera again. And then the professional performance where one dad bought huge camera and tripod and tried to set up in the centre of the hall. He had to be removed by security as "it's my child, so I have a right to film" and refused to shift..
And once you have one person doing it, others quickly follow.
Problem is if people didn't know it had been deleted, then firstly the parents who have concerns are worried, but also others think "oh, I'll just see if I can get a few seconds before I'm stopped, and then I'll at least have that."

I'd also guess that they had photos at the start with children without photo permission removed. I've been in the situation where that's needed to be done. You quietly take those children off to do something, and let the other parents loose, returning the children (also quietly) when they've finished. Done well it isn't noticed.

They should have made it clear at the start:

"No filming/photographs For safeguarding reasons"

It's not OPs fault that the school clearly forgot to say this. If your child needs to not be filmed/photographed you should be pissed off at the school, not the OP

This man purposefully humiliated the OP, it was power play and he is an arsehole. If he had overeacted he could easily have approached OP and apologised afterwards but he chose to again tell her off like a naughty child

It's all designed to show his authority and power over the OP, to massage his own ego

For someone so shy and retiring, it strikes me as odd that you decided to film the show amongst an audience of 300 with no one else filming

PP the OP has already said that she was at the front and couldn't see the people in the seat behind so was unaware that she was the only one with her phone out. And recording something doesn't make you not shy? Wtf?

No but I an audience of 300, no one recording - not exactly a feature of someone shy to be the only person doing something!

He's an arsehole.
It was not stated at the beginning of the performance and you can film but cannot share publicly.
He also just wanted you to BUY a copy of the performance. He has no idea about safeguarding. The twat.

YANBU how awful. They're extremely unprofessional for going about it this way.