To be really upset about this?

[Wayfair2020]

Background: I'm a very shy, quiet person who keeps herself to herself.

All my children in a show and on Friday we watched the dress rehearsal. This is the first show at this theatre group my children have done. Before the start of the show, children came on to the stage and posed for photos (for info, no permission was asked from parents) . Dress rehearsal starts, one of my children comes on to stage and I film him. At their old theatre group, this was allowed. About 30 seconds into the dance, all music stops and one of the theatre group leaders calls across the (packed) hall and says 'who was filming the children?' I looked around as I thought something bad had happened only to notice all eyes on me, so I realised it was me being told off here! So I had to put my hand up and say 'it was me'. I was literally mortified. With that, he came marching over, said to me 'Did you have permission from all the parents in here to film their children? No, I didn't think so. I am going to have to watch you delete it Infront of me right now. This is a safeguarding issue, perhaps you need to come to a safeguarding course that we run for chaperones'. I was actually shaking and deleted the video , whilst being watched by I imagine 300 parents and all the children on stage (including one of mine). My 4 year old son was on stage burst into tears as he didn't understand what was going on. The other theatre leader who is a bit nicer came rushing over to my son and then to me to say 'it's our policy not to film, we should have announced it at the start but I need to check your film has been deleted'. So again, Infront of the packed room I had to prove I had deleted it. By this point I was close to tears myself. I am painfully shy and this was awful.

I watched the dress rehearsal and wanted to cry for the whole hour. As I left with my children at the end, the man approached me in the carpark to once again re-iterate his policies and I said that I didn't appreciate the way it was done Infront of everyone and that I was so humiliated. He said (in a horrible way) 'well you are not giving me the chance to apologise as you are walking away from me' (which I was because I was trying not to cry).

So my question is, AIBU for being so upset? I am SO embarassed that I feel like I don't ever want to go back to the place. If I had known their policy, I obviously would not have filmed. As people were taking photos I naively assumed I could film my son .

I feel that all they needed to do was to tell me discreetly?? Like maybe a little tap on the shoulder to say 'sorry, you're not allowed to film' or to come up to me after and fine, ask me to delete it, but do it discreetly.

FWIW, there are hundreds of pictures of the dress rehearsal all over facebook that I didn't give permission for them or other people to take of my children! (I don't mind, but if I did, I was given no opportunity to say so).

Every time I think of it I cringe, and it's really put a downer on my weekend.

Also, thanks again for all your kindness. I know I need to toughen up but it's hard when I'm such a shy person who would do anything to avoid speaking in public etc. Arghhhhh

There are plenty of other places her kids could go to that don't shout nastily at parents in front of a crowd of people! I'm sure if "hurting her kids" was a thought, he wouldn't have humiliated their mum, causing the child to burst into tears and need comforting by another staff member.

And if waiting til the end won't do then fine, a discrete tap on the shoulder and a quiet word is more than enough!

He sounds like a horrible nasty man.

In our local primary school photos and filming are allowed in certain classes and certain situations so it's not a blanket rule anywhere. DS's class has a child in who cannot be photographed so they ask that no one films the performance beforehand. Fine. No one does and those who may forget are automatically reminded at the start so any phones out are quickly put away.

DDs class however has no such rule. That entire class are active on a community related Facebook media page and all appear regularly,

Fucking hell, no way would they be seeing a pound of my money again. I would write an email explaining how humiliated you feel off the back of the way they handled your accidental faux pas. Explain you had no plans to share the video, it was merely going to be a family momento. Then explain you will be removing your children from the dance company and walk away.

Fuck that.

@bloodywhitecat

Me too. Anything my kids are in, I spend 95% of the time watching the other parents. If I were in OPs audience, and the teacher hadn’t intervened, I would have stopped the performance myself by marching up to her myself and demanding she cease and desist and delete immediately. It’s sad to see lots of posters being so flippant about what is really needed to protect some children’s safety and even lives.

It is standard (and tbh good) practice not to allow audience to film anything, has been for at least 10 years, so they were right to stop you. And before you wade in on social media re the photos check what you agreed to in terms of blanket permissions re your children's participation.

I am also a bit of a wallflower and I would have been horrified to be in the position you were in. They handled it too visibly and generally horribly. But no-one "thinks you are a pervert", or tbh will think anything about you at all. You were embarrassed but it is over.

Oh you poor thing. How awful. I think most people would find that really upsetting and it's really unreasonable of the theatre group to expect you to know this without them saying - and of the man to continue to be aggressive when he was 'trying to apologise'. I think you did well to hold it together for the performance.

Yeah mumsnet, where the feelings of a mother embarrassed by her own ignorance outweigh the safety of an innocent child.

Yes I didn't think it was a blanket rule - one of my children's school you can film their assemblies and the other they always announce that you can't, so no one does.

I would never intentionally break a rule

The world has not "gone mad" . I'm aware of at least 3 children in my own kids' social circle for whom appearing in some random people's innocent filming of their kids could be endangering. Grow up.

Ps. I have never signed anything about photo permissions in this group, I promise.

So to all those people telling OP to toughen up, I'm curious, would you really be fine with being singled out and publicly screamed at in front of a crowd of 300 for a mistake? Really? You'd sit there and think, fair enough and not feel completely and utterly humiliated?

He handled it badly and they should say before every performance please do not film. I wouldn't want to go back either. Not like you did anything Terrible though. We live in a world of phones and cameras now. People are forever taking footage and people will be in the background on many videos etc out there and we will never know. I hope you are ok. Don't feel bad for not knowing. The rules and policies should be made clear for any new people xxx

Which I indeed referred to as an exception. That's fine, and understandable but a band all across for the sake of supposed safeguarding issues when there is nothing to safeguard is ridiculous.

And how does this work in practice? The parent of this child has to disclose their child’s status as someone fleeing domestic violence etc to their Saturday morning dance teacher? And every person running a kids group that their child attends? What if that person is a neighbour who vaguely knows the family (which is more or less everyone in my small village). And then all the other parents know that one of the children in their class (bearing in mind how small some kids groups are - my DD’s dance class is usually about 5 kids) has some background story that means no videos are allowed for safeguarding purposes? That’s the reality of only enforcing a safeguarding policy in instances where there is a known issue.

Is anyone else imagining Mrs Darbus from High School Musical here?

OP, you are not a mind reader and it seems like they knew they were in the wrong and tried to apologise. Try not to worry about it.

@FionaOgre
So to all those people telling OP to toughen up, I'm curious, would you really be fine with being singled out and publicly screamed at in front of a crowd of 300 for a mistake? Really? You'd sit there and think, fair enough and not feel completely and utterly humiliated?

Yes in a case like this where 1) a child’s life could be endangered by my continuing to do whatever I am doing and 2) it’s something I really should have been aware of beforehand if I’d done my due diligence as a parent.

Yes, I’d be humiliated and embarrassed, but I’d also be grateful that I was stopped before any harm could occur to an innocent child. My feelings are nowhere near important in a case like this.

And as for other people thinking other parents are “safe” you are very naive. Numerous serial killers that targeted children were parents and raised kids that they never abused or harmed. Their children were the bait to get their victims. Look up Albert Fish for Christ’s sake.

@Wayfair2020 then if you are sure you haven't signed a waiver (was it not part of the original agreement to take part?) you'd be justified in pointing that out. if you want to be like that I don't know what you'd be seeking to gain, though their safeguarding practice seems to be a bit gappy.

The likelihood is that they know there is someone who cannot be filmed, who doesn't appear in the photos. If you'd given it any thought, you wouldn't have filmed. The photocall at the start was a big indication that you filming wouldn't be ok but they should have reminded the audience that was the case.

I honestly do still empathise - and understand your upset. But you can get past it. How it felt to you will not be how anyone else sees you. People won't remember who you are or be thinking oh yeah that's the woman who..... people are more wrapped up in themselves than that.

The other thing to think about here is that the performers might feel added pressure to get things right if they know they're being filmed rather than 'just' performing live. You said this was the dress rehersal, so possibly the first/only time they run through the whole show in costume. In this sense filming the rehersal is different from staged/posed/planned photographs before the show starts. Their rehersal should remain a rehersal not be transformed into a filmed performance without warning or the actors'/dancers' permission.

He handled it terribly and I wouldn’t want such a character working with my DC. He could have discreetly pulled you aside and had the same outcome without the public humiliation. Try not to dwell on it - he looks like the idiot in this, not you.

As I left with my children at the end, the man approached me in the carpark to once again re-iterate his policies and I said that I didn't appreciate the way it was done Infront of everyone and that I was so humiliated. He said (in a horrible way) 'well you are not giving me the chance to apologise as you are walking away from me' (which I was because I was trying not to cry).

He wasn’t apologising, that’s such disingenuous bullshit from him. He was justifying himself. You don’t owe someone else your time when they’re treating you badly.

YANBU.

This is appalling. No one is going to think you are a pervert! They are going to think this was a disgraceful overreaction by the theatre group.

Also, if there are pictures posted on fb I bet you were not the only one filming.

Painful as you might find it you now need to go in for an appointment and ‘speak to the manager’. Like it or not you should do it. Then something good will have come from this - you will have stuck up for yourself. What you need to say is why were you treated so rudely and this upset the children. Then show the social media posts that you haven’t agreed to and ask about that.

Fiona she wasn’t ‘screamed at’ - as soon as you use hyperbole to illustrate your point, it’s invalid. Stop exaggerating.

I was one of those who agreed OP needs to toughen up.
I am married to someone with severe social anxiety disorder, diagnosed and for which he has received counselling and CBT - not that any of those things have made a jot of difference. The only thing that has made a chink of ‘progress’ is continuing maturity on his part with him being 50 now and naturally less inclined to worry about the opinions of others, as happens to us all.

Yes, toughen up. There are people who behave in u predictable and undesirable ways everywhere.
No the man did not ‘scream’ at her. Stop feeding her paranoia.

Sounds like a horrible bully - you don't need to toughen up. Remove your DC and find a kind group. So sorry this happened

Oh OP that sounds awful! What a ridiculous way the teachers dealt with this! Also that teacher wasn't trying to apologise to you in the car park, it's likely a peer told him he went OTT at you in front of everyone. He's got irritated because you didn't immediately say "oh it's okay, I understand" when he was trying to "apologise" to you.

I'm sure the other parents in attendance thought it was OTT too. Easy to say but try to not worry so much.

FWIW- YADNBU

I agree that it sounds like he made more of a twat of himself than you.

Absolutely horrible way to handle it, and it sounds like he knew he was out of order but was too proud and embarrassed at his outburst to apologise properly.

You had no idea, you are definitely not BU to be upset. I would have cried in the toilets!