To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

[Tweedledeedumb]

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

So does this mean in four weeks, when I get a dishwasher, (for my toilet brushes)... I’m officially out of poverty? 😂

My point is though 73 what can the school do if your income looks ok.on paper but actually you are struggling to put food on the table , people can only claim benefits if their income is below certain level and even families on low income are often not entitled to free school meals because the earn just over the entitlement it seems a fairly futile questionnaire.

I've been in a can't afford to eat scenario. We owned a dishwasher (was a gift) and a microwave.

We are now comfortable.
We still own a dishwasher but not a microwave. I never used it and wanted to free up kitchen side space.

We've not had holidays abroad in either scenario. Last two years we've not even had holidays in UK due to various reasons.

That's the most ridiculous questionnaire I've ever heard. I'd be incredibly annoyed. It will in no way achieve its aim.

This is as ridiculous as the school assuming a parent couldn’t afford school uniform because she sent her child in with a slightly stained polo shirt (it was a thread earlier in the week). Why are schools picking such silly things as their markers for poverty.

I know loads of people who haven’t been abroad this year. My neighbours go away in their caravan at least twice a month but have never been abroad. They also don’t have a dishwasher.

I would also think that those really struggling would have a microwave rather than an oven? Firstly because the oven is more expensive to start with but, I would also think the food you would cook in a microwave would be cheaper than food you would put in an oven?

I would have thought not having school shoes and/or a warm coat in winter are better indicators of poverty.

I don’t have a dishwasher and haven’t been abroad yet this year, although I have a short city break next month. I could in no way be described as in poverty.

I have a microwave but a lot of my more middle class, and definitely not in poverty, friends don’t. They can all cook better than me.

It’s all very weird and a bit intrusive.

When i was at school everyone, including the children knew who the children who lived in poverty were. Same when my dc were at school.

Teachers need to teach and use their common sense rather than getting involved in nosey parker tick box bureaucracy. And they are suposed to be overworked. If they are doing this what tommy rot.

Oh my God! My DD had one of these about 6 years ago and it asked things like "How many rooms has your house?" and "Do you eat out in restaurants?"

It was dressed up as a lesson on survey taking. I threw it in the bin, explained to DD that it asked too many personal questions and she then told the teacher I'd told her we would not fill it in as it was too personal.

She was quite taken aback.

@FredaFrogspawn totally agree with you.

Also the responses saying that it’s cheeky and rude...that’s completely unhelpful and reinforces the general thinking that living in poverty is a shameful thing.

We need families to see that it’s okay to receive and ask for help.
It’s not offensive to offer help - I’ll bet sone families were grateful to receive that call.

How about just thanking them for their concern and moving on without being offended.

I have a dishwasher and a microwave and am quite skint...although nowhere near living in poverty.

For the pp who mention unclaimed pupil premiums:
How do you claim pupil premium if you don't qualify for free school meals? I used to be really poor but I couldn't get free meals most of the time as I was working more than 16 hours a week. So for a lot of families in poverty there is no help available anyway.
In the end I had 4 months of unemployment and dc became eligible for free meals. I was told by a teacher that this would ensure pupil premium for a few years after, but when I asked for help to pay for a mandatory school trip (I'm not proud!) the school were really sneery about it and made me jump through lots of admin hoops. Someone with a thinner skin would have backed down straight away. I wouldn't ask again, partly as I can manage now but also because I felt very discouraged from asking for help.

I am curious to know what the other questions were
Not having those items is no indicator of poverty

The posters who have said that children wouldn't give honest answers to the 'real' questions are correct. Running low on food? Running out of gas/electricity emergency credit? Knocks on the door that mum doesn't answer? Not a chance kids will tell about these things - it's not a question that they have been told not to tell, more that shame about poverty is unspoken and ingrained. Over a decade as a debt adviser has taught me that much, at least.

Like many posters, we are not living in poverty but we don't have a microwave (or a car) by choice and DS hasn't been abroad yet as we haven't had the money. My wardrobe is mostly second-hand, but I am sort-of culturally MC - my contemporaries on the council estate I grew up on wouldn't have been caught dead in a charity shop.

I would have thought not having school shoes and/or a warm coat in winter are better indicators of poverty.

But a lot of parents will go without food or clothes themselves to make sure that their children have these things. The children may be well fed and dressed because there are adults making huge sacrifices (and juggling the bills to the extent that they are sick with worry every night) to make sure that this is the case.

They are odd questions, the dishwasher one especially. I can’t stand dishwashers- the smell of dirty plates, yuck. Then putting the whole lot away in one go.

Easier and less smelly to just wash up- imo. We don’t have a dishwasher because I literally don’t want one.

Very weird that this is seemingly a marker for poverty.

Wouldn't this potentially make the kids filling out the form feel very uncomfortable? Seems an odd thing to require them to do.

@TottieandMarchpane Sorry, whats an MRA loon ?

I dont want to digress too much but of course poverty is relative. This civilised country has a safety net for children as a minimum. If they have parents who subject them to poverty through neglect well thats a different matter !

When i was growing up(1970s) in a single parent home, we lived in a council flat with only a coal fire for heating and windows made of metal that the draught blew through and which frozen on both sides in winter. We had no carpets just lino. We lived on benefits and charity from the church. I knew days when my mother shoplifted to put food on the table, chopped up furniture in the house to put on the fire to heat it in winter, picked up discarded clothes from the street and took them home to wash for us to wear. There was no washing machine, no fridge,no colour tv. ALL washing was done by hand in the sink or the bath tub. I would often sneak up to the railway sidings and nick some coal from the stockpile, or we would go in the local park or cemetery to collect fallen branches for firewood. Meat was a rarity. Another woman (single parent), who lived round the corner often had male visitors (prostitute?), a knew a woman who lived across the road who shagged one of my teenage mates for some change to put in her gas meter. But despite all this, we were all disciplined, all went to school and all grew up,got jobs,never behind bars and i have paid the state back many times for my upbringing via my fat tax every month.

In that era there was still a stigma to being a single parent no matter what the cause.

Compare that poverty to standards today and there is a world of difference even for those closed as "poor".

Don’t the school need your permission to collect that sort of personal information about you?

Often children don't know the true extent of their parents money worrie,s anyway , my son knows we struggle at the end of the month but only because we can't afford his usual.treats ,he's never gone hungry.or cold ,we are far from rich, dh has a low paid job and I don't work as ds2is disabled ,we have some money worrie,s but it's not something I would discuss with ds1and we are lucky as I have parents that would always help us out

I don't think it's unreasonable to check.
We'd only fail one (never been abroad) but until dd1 was 11yo we didn't have a TV or a car, but we did have a microwave and a dishwasher. That would have been interesting.

I hear enough shite about poverty in Britain. There is no real poverty in the UK. There is poverty. Just because others have it worse doesn't make it non-poverty. There are people here who are going hungry regularly, are unable to pay for basic necessities even in the leafiest suburbs.

My dishwasher is my DH.

Seen from outside the UK, too, these seem to be very 'unhelpful' questions based on somebodies stereotypical view of 'normal'.
We have an old dishwasher - washing up by hand uses more water and energy than a full load.
We do not have a microwave - we cook and can afford fresh food.
We did not have holidays away as a family unit at all - we have a house of people with AS / ADHD, who do not like that sort of thing.
We do not own a car - public transport is great where we live.

@Burlea Same here,im the dishwasher and yet i am fabulously wealthy.(relatively)

I can see where the school’s coming from.

They’re more likely to get honest answers asking about things like dishwashers / microwaves / holidays, than by asking direct questions about whether all your family can afford enough food / heating / clothes etc.

And asking about dishwashers etc is less intrusive than asking if your parents can afford to buy enough food etc.

Although I do wonder what other questions were in this survey, because I agree that having a microwave but no oven would be a bigger indicator of poverty than someone simply not having a microwave. Microwaves are cheaper and smaller than ovens and can cook things more cheaply than ovens can.

No those questions are an indicatior, a microwave, dishwasher and foreign holiday aren't an indicator of poverty; or even that the child is subject to living in unsuitable conditions. You could be on £1 million a year and just not want those things. I guess (depending on what help they could offer) it's good that these exist, but those 3 are boredering on ridiculous.