To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

[Tweedledeedumb]

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

Microwaves are cheap and cheap to run. Certainly not an indicator of poverty! Most definitely cheaper than buying an oven or stove! Ya big no oven might be more of an indicator!
Many people now are shunning dishwashers and foreign holidays for the environment...

It could be quite useful to help some families struggling, there could be other concerns from staff which marry up with the results and show there is an obvious need for financial support.

YANBU, that is fecking rude! Holy crap, we must be two thirds in poverty then as we have a microwave!
Poverty would be answering no to the questions can you afford school uniform and do you get 3 square meals a day?
Never heard anything so daft

bad carbon footprint

Not the case

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/is-it-better-to-wash-dishes-by-hand-or-dishwasher-environment-science/amp

There are some truly fucking ignorant replies to this thread.
We get it, you are soooo middle class, so affluent, so environmentally aware, well done.

Not the point, I know, but for those who can afford and have space for a dishwasher, why don’t you get one?

I am smaller, more efficient and more portable than a dishwasher, and I get my glassware shinier.

If I got a dishwasher I would resent it for needing cleaning and maintenance, as well as for stealing my favourite wine-drinking-daydreaming activity, and that would be unfair for the dishwasher

’Lets be honest most people who don’t have a microwave, or dishwasher and don’t go on overseas holidays are poorer than those with these thing

What nonsense!
Never had a dishwasher in my life that doesn't make me poorer than someone who does (actually I don't know anyone who does have one
And none of them are on the breadline!)
Don't have a microwave now as mine broke down a year ago. Am actually better of than when I had one but am in no hurry to rush out and buy one just for the sake of it.

Wow. I would be furious.

No dishwasher (no room), a second hand microwave (ours broke and a family member had one they were getting rid of) and we dont go abroad out of choice.

I can see what they are trying to do, but it seems a terribly flawed way of going about things. As well as there being lots of reasons why parents who could afford a dishwasher/microwave/ foreign holiday choosing not to have them, there may be those who have all of those things and more but also have huge debts. The latter group would not be identified by a survey like this and may well be in greater need than the former.
When I was growing up we had a pretty frugal lifestyle compared to many of my friends because my parents would never use any kind of credit or take out loans. As a child I didn't really understand why my parents said that we couldn't afford lots of things when my friends whose parents did similar types of jobs had all kinds of material things that I didn't. If I had filled in a survey such as the one being discussed, my school teachers would probably have thought I was living in poverty. In reality my parents were just very careful with money (my mum grew up in real poverty and was incredibly thrifty as a result). Later on I realised that they had prioritised things like paying off the mortgage early, saving to support me through university etc - we weren't rich by any means but we certainly weren't poor!
I am sure the school means well but I think a survey like this is likely to be very misleading. I also feel uncomfortable about children being effectively taught that your family gets judged on how many material possessions you have. I wouldn't be very happy if my children were being asked this type of question.

www.statista.com/statistics/480184/average-number-of-abroad-holidays-per-person-in-the-uk/

Shows that UK population taking more overseas holidays than before. I doubt it’s the poorest people taking them. Similar studies are a click away. To those saying they don’t own a dishwasher out of choice, never stray beyond the shores of the UK but are not in poverty, you are the exception. And you clearly haven’t been in a classroom if you think you can just ask a child do you have three meals a day during the holidays? This school was trying to identify the students in poverty it didn’t know about, not those it already does. Why the rent a mob becoming angry about a school trying to do good?

I completed a survey like this before at 17. Question asked had you ever been to London - which the majority of my class hadn’t I think 1 person had been there on a connecting flight - it was a nationwide survey that we had randomly been selected to participate in - in the results it had to be explained that as s catholic school in Northern Ireland, London was not necessarily deemed our capital city and then (probably 99%) had been in Dublin

Well what a load of twaddle! I think Fredafrogspawn nailed it with her comments questions and a shame your son didn't write "none of your business" for all his answers!
And in all honesty if I didn't live within 25 miles of a Eurostar station my son would be able to answer "never been abroad" as I am too scared to go near a bloody plane (on the positive side I can now say my carbon footprint for the last "ahem mumble, mumble" years by not flying puts me on the slightly smug side)
As it is he has only ever been to Paris outside of the UK and my "holidays" visiting relatives in the UK actually cost more than our trips to France
And a microwave is quite often what a poorer family can afford rather than a cooker ie in tiny flats or living in temporary accomodation on a low income and your cooker goes a microwave is 40 quid for a cheap one and a cooker 200 for a cheap one plus its a lot cheaper on fuel to use a microwave than a cooker so it's a no brainer for a struggling family esp as low income families are as a rule less likely to cook from scratch and rely on processed ready meals or things like egg and beans that cost pence due to lack of money or time as working long hours or ill health /depression. My self and my son quite often rely on micro meals or scrambled egg and beans if I am too ill with pain and exhausted to function by early evening and it makes me feel worse physically and mentally for subjecting my child to a less than healthy meal by feeding ourselves highly processed crap but it's "needs must as the devil drives"scenarios, as it is for many people sadly.(although it's not poverty thankfully in my case just crap health)

We went on our first holiday in 8 years this year and it was in the uk. We would rather spend that money on days out (merlin annual passes) and events (comic con). We had a dishwasher but I sold it because it was never used (ocd) and microwave was donated because it was taking up space and again never used. We are in no way living in poverty.

Well done to the school for doing this, they need to adapt the questions but I think great they are trying and offering to help.

No they are not signs of poverty, most of my very well off friends don’t have a microwave they heat and defrost things on the aga lol

Crazy! My kids go to a private school and lots of people don’t go abroad on holiday but they are definitely not poor! My in-laws have never owned a dishwasher and they haven’t been abroad for more than 40 years but they are certainly not poor either. They just offloaded a load of cash to us as they don’t need it!

Very intrusive and not a good indicator of households needing help. The holiday abroad is more like one to indicate carbon emissions not poverty. All personal choices really. Indicators used to be households without a fridge, washing machine, proper bed and bedding and of course clothing/shoes.

They should have asked if you have a kitchen aid and a pasta machine, also if you drink instant coffee or use a cafetiere. Ridiculous.

Rude and invasive, I cannot fathom how this helps anyone. I can understand if a child said they didn’t have much food at home or if they turned up with dirty clothing etc but no dishwasher or microwave?

I didn’t have a microwave for years until I met my DH who insisted he buy me one. I just didn’t see why it was necessary.

Yes, it's good that schools are trying to identify children whose families are struggling but these questions are not the way to go about it.

There a huge gap between not having these things in your home or being able to have at least one holiday aboard in a year and not having enough to eat or being able to clothe your children.

Whilst the question would need to be sensitively worded, if the questions are going to be asked, they need to be realistic.

None of those things indicate poverty any more than someone without a 54 inch television or a new car can be judged to be living in poverty. Some people want them, some don't.

I think you're right to be puzzled by the questions rather than angry about what the school is trying to achieve. Can't understand why people are furious - were you that furious about the home visit when your child was starting Reception? You do realise what that was for, right?

The questions are badly thought out, and it would be absolutely right to encourage the school to seek out the right support in devising a survey, but it's good that they're checking.

Presumably your son wasn't informed about the call so is none the wiser?

Incidentally, a few teachers I know tell me that the first thing they look for at the home visit is a table. Any sort of table - it's an indication of whether the child is in an environment where people sit and eat together, and if they'll have somewhere to sit comfortably and do their homework. Given that they're in the house for 15 minutes in either June or September, so heating is probably not an issue, it makes sense. Sad how many houses they visit where there isn't one though :(

I don't own a microwave as I just don't like them and we didn't go abroad this year but we did indeed have a family holiday and we were a long time without a dishwasher as I was waiting to get one when I changed my kitchen. I think the questions are strange and while I applaud them for wanting to help it really doesn't help to pinpoint those in poverty. I'd be fuming if I was contacted by the school about this.

Hahaha! Omg that's hilarious!! They'd have a field day with us!! No dishwasher, no microwave, no holidays abroad for 5 years...and horrors! ..no TV for the last 12 years(Just a DVD player)
Would love to meet the person who came up with these questions. Some people have a very squewed idea of reality..

Just form filling statistical nonsense -
Is the school going to pay for dishwasher microwave holidays ...
Tell child to state he will take questions home for adults to respond to as he is there to get an education, not be a political pawn

We have a dishwasher that was left by the people before. We hand wash everything as it doesn’t wash well and I couldn’t afford to replace things that get lost or damaged by it.
We also have a microwave that we use every day for the baby bottles and steriliser.
We have not been abroad since 2011. My children never have, and they have only left the county once to visit family for the first time.

However, my tiny around the £9,000 yearly income is hard... but because I have working tax credits to afford nursery and wraparound childcare, I’m not allowed Healthy Start vouchers which would be a Godsend for baby formula, milk and fruit and veg.

I think the school are well-meaning, even if it is a little arse about face. If my son filled this in and I received a phone call... I would be more likely to admit I could do with some help, but I wouldn’t ever just say it.

I would be very grateful of any help offered or taken, and be glad to think that my school were trying to find people that needed help and asking for ways of helping them in the first place.

Was the quiz with the sole intention of identifying those in poverty?

What other questions were asked?