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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

328 replies

Tweedledeedumb · 19/10/2019 09:43

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

OP posts:
Ohyesiam · 19/10/2019 11:59

I think it’s a very broad brush stroke, but I can see what they are getting at.
Lots of people with lower incomes than us seem to value a “sun and pool” holiday every year above a lot of other things. So there must be a big sector of people who see not having one as missing out.
I think my dd was the only kid in her class who didn’t have a microwave in about year 3. So ditto that. I just don’t often defrost stuff , don’t do packet food or ready meals, so I’ve not needed one much.

A dishwasher I love though!

Am trying to think of better questions they could ask.
Do you eat fresh veg every day?

HaveIgoneMad · 19/10/2019 12:00

Those questions are flawed anyway, when I was in secondary school my mum owned a dishwasher that never worked and a microwave....that I used to heat up my 20p ready meals that she's get me for dinner. Admittedly I only ever had one holiday abroad with my mum, that she didn't pay a penny for so we would have passed the test despite the fact that there was barely enough money to feed us.

Wheat2Harvest · 19/10/2019 12:01

I'm really quite shocked by this. I don't have any of those things and I don't have a tumble dryer either, because I don't want any of them.

Some people who DO have all these things (and more) will be maxed out on their credit cards and stressed out from keeping up appearances. They are not a reliable indicator of someone's financial situation.

Namechange84 · 19/10/2019 12:03

Sorry Barbara, you aren't selling dishwashers to me. I can't abide having dirty crockery lingering around, there is not a chance in hell that I'm waiting for enough to put a load on when it would take less than 5 minutes and very little water to wash up what I have used in the sink.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 19/10/2019 12:03

Having a microwave is not a marker of living on ready meals.

No one said it is. Having a microwave and no conventional oven however, is much more likely to be so.

dementedma · 19/10/2019 12:05

I've never had a dishwasher. Ditched the microwave as never used it. Holiday mostly in the UK.
Clearly a family in dire need.

Namechange84 · 19/10/2019 12:06

Yes, it's a key point to notice that it's the children who only have access to a microwave and, say, kettle that most likely do live on canned foods, 10p noodles etc and those are the ones more likely to be at risk.

NoraThePessimist · 19/10/2019 12:09

Thing is. Why not use existing frameworks of poverty to .. you know.. kick off a discussion with the kids? Smarter organisations and experts than a single teacher have already identified and developed poverty indicators, or discussed relative poverty within the UK and what that looks like over time.. so why not explore that body of knowledge?

I can't believe the lack of awareness on the teacher's part here, it's woefully inadequate.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 19/10/2019 12:09

I can't abide having dirty crockery lingering around

I wouldn’t call dishes stacked away out of sight (or smell) in a dishwasher while you get enough for a full load ‘lingering around’.

New dishwashers are more energy efficient than handwashing dishes, by the time you factor in heating up the water needed to wash by hand (which is worse again if you are washing small amounts more frequently), plus comparative water usage - especially considering most dishwashers now include an eco setting.

BernardsarenotalwaysSaints · 19/10/2019 12:11

Of course it isn’t. We do have a dishwasher and a microwave (mainly used for warming up Dh, forgotten, tea & frozen peas) but we don’t have a toaster; there are 7 of us, it’s a damn site quicker to use the grill Grin

Whathappenedtothelego · 19/10/2019 12:12

Presumably they didn't ask just those questions, seems more likely there were more, but maybe there was a threshold of 3 "no"s and you get contacted.
FOr what it's worth, we don't have any of them, and would also fall down on questions like "do you share your bedroom?", and until fairly recently "do you have a car?"

We have a pretty average family income.

Passthecherrycoke · 19/10/2019 12:14

“Do you eat fresh veg every day?”

? That’s not poverty. Lack of education or common in some cultures maybe, but not an indication of poverty

PumpkinKing · 19/10/2019 12:20

Well I've failed on all those points. Haven't got a dishwasher because we have no room for one. Haven't replaced our microwave since our last one died because we never used it, and we've never had a family holiday abroad because I'm terrified of flying so we holiday in the UK instead. Clearly we're destitute!

SlurplePurple · 19/10/2019 12:26

I’m not sure they are accurate measures of anyone being in poverty.
I spent my teen years in poverty. We had a dishwasher but it was never used. We had a microwave that also was never used. We didn’t holiday at all though.
We ate school dinners but had no breakfast and no evening meal apart from on weekends when we had no lunch but got an evening meal of soup or stew.
I had one skirt and one shirt for school that were always dirty. I was always dirty.
It was obvious we were living in poverty.
Now I have no microwave or dishwasher, I never holiday abroad and although I’m not very well off I’m definitely not on the poverty line.
My children eat well, dress well, are warm and do lots of extra after school activities. But our income is often included in the poverty area.
I think where you live in the country makes a massive difference to how poor/rich you feel on the same salary.

L0bstersLass · 19/10/2019 12:31

They are ridiculous questions.

NoProblem123 · 19/10/2019 12:58

Quote data protection lingo !

What is the purpose of this data gathering exercise?
Can they achieve that purpose with less data ?
Who is accessing it ? Who is using it ?
How are they storing it ? How are they backing it up ?
What is their retention schedule? How are the disposing it ?
Why are they so bloody nosey ?

No microwave or dishwasher and no abroad holidays for 2 years - and we’re far from poor ! CFers.

Drabarni · 19/10/2019 12:59

I'd send a note back complaining if I got such a call. It's none of their business and another example of our nanny state.
Wtf do they intend to do with the data collected from these questions?

TottieandMarchpane · 19/10/2019 13:04

You know, they’d do much better to put a piece in the Newsletter, carefully phrases along the lines of;

“These are tough economic times and we know many families are finding things financially tight sometimes. We are keen to support each other as members of the school community and have X, Y and Z initiatives on offer for anyone who would benefit from them. Please text or email [contact details] if we can help.”

Passthecherrycoke · 19/10/2019 13:08

If I remember correctly there is a poverty indicator involving white goods, but it used to be about washing machines and fridges, not dishwashers

TottieandMarchpane · 19/10/2019 13:09

That’s the JRT (Joseph Rowntree) one I think @Passthecherrycoke

Kaykay06 · 19/10/2019 13:15

It wouldn’t have bothered me when I lived in my 4 bed semi detached house but now I live in a homeless house with 4 kids and we struggle big time - these things are to help families, kids who could get the help might get it because of this but you can all moan and complain about being asked/called but if it helps even one kid then it’s worth it.

I’d love a house and security and to be not be skint (I work and I’ve always paid my bills) but shit happens to us all, I never thought I’d find myself in this situation but here I am.

Walnutwhipster · 19/10/2019 13:16

I have none of those things. My DC have never had free school meals. Our UK holiday (I can't get insurance) cost over £3,000. I drive a brand new SUV and am mortgage free. I can think of loads of indicators for poverty, these questions aren't them.

PookieDo · 19/10/2019 13:21

I can’t afford a dishwasher or a holiday abroad. I do have a microwave.

I think there is an element of living pay dsy to pay day being unable to save anything that is pretty evident for a lot of people. I just had to buy a new bed and had to put it on credit (interest free)

Toooldfornonsense · 19/10/2019 13:27

@Tweedledeedumb I haven’t come across this questioning at my sons school but are you able to get a copy of said questions that are asked and have the school governors review as well as the PTA involved?
Completely understand the need for schools to determine where he’ll is needed for their pupils but surely there should be some dialogue going on around what questions are actually an indicator

Toooldfornonsense · 19/10/2019 13:28

Help not he’ll...