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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

328 replies

Tweedledeedumb · 19/10/2019 09:43

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

OP posts:
Laquila · 20/10/2019 08:09

This is a very interesting thread. I’m surprised at how many people seem offended to be potentially judged as being in need of financial aid (or perhaps it’s because it feels like being judged as a failing parent?).

I’m also surprised at how many people seem to think it’s none of the school’s business if children and their families are struggling to pay for uniform/buy food/afford school meals or trips/buy books etc.

LaurieMarlow · 20/10/2019 08:12

Well when our house was being done up and we were without one, we were spending 30 mins + a day doing dishes.

Which I find a totally unengaging task, particularly when time poor, so it enriches our lives significantly.

I’m just curious as to why people do without.

MIdgebabe · 20/10/2019 08:12

I think it's more the stupidity of the questions. The assumptions being made by people you want to be teaching children to have open and questioning minds, and involving the children also feels a bit off to me

MIdgebabe · 20/10/2019 08:15

30 minutes a day?! Wow. Less than 5 seconds per normally soiled item here I would say. And no where near the amount of water that is used in all the tests to show you how environmentally better dishwashers are. Just breakfast and dinner for 2 or 3 people.

daisypond · 20/10/2019 08:21

We did a survey like that in our school once. More students had televisions in their houses than had inside toilets. Also more families had cars than had bathtubs. Not really signs of poverty, more like signs of personal choices, in my opinion. But that would seem quite typical to me. It is not “personal choice” to fit additional toilets or bathrooms into a house or flat! There’s usually not room and it would cost a fortune even if you could find space. I’ve only got one loo in my house.

NoSquirrels · 20/10/2019 08:34

I’m surprised at how many people seem offended to be potentially judged as being in need of financial aid (or perhaps it’s because it feels like being judged as a failing parent?).

There is a lot of shame attached to being poor.

People on this thread who have used the word "judgemental" must themselves subconsciously believe that being poor is a moral failing.

See above.

Anyone who doesn’t recognise the stigma around poverty must be lucky enough not to ever have come into contact with it.

We all know being poor isn’t a choice. But from a really, really young age children are steeped in the shame of it even with the best intentions and brilliant parents.

Schools can be so vital to childhood outcomes. But a crap questionnaire isn’t going to help them.

PlugUgly1980 · 20/10/2019 08:41

No dishwasher here (personal choice). Ditched microwave when kids no longer had bottles that needed sterilising, as didn't use it for anything else. No holiday abroad. But we spent £35k + on a campervan and have been all over the UK this year and have a family income of £85k.

squeekums · 20/10/2019 08:42

I’m just curious as to why people do without
Not by choice here. I had a free standing one but it had to live in laundry and it died 2 years ago.
We rent from inlaws so refuse to pay to install one and modify the kitchen so it would fit.
We could get another free standing but I hated having to take the dishes to the laundry, was annoying
So I will wait till its more practical to get one over having a love hate relationship with my dishwasher lol

Willow2017 · 20/10/2019 08:49

I’m also surprised at how many people seem to think it’s none of the school’s business if children and their families are struggling to pay for uniform/buy food/afford school meals or trips/buy books etc.

Because not having a dishwasher is not an indication of poverty! It's a choice for many people.

I’m just curious as to why people do without

Doing the dishes doesn't take long at all and far less water than a dishwasher would use. Some people don't have room for a dishwasher in thier kitchen anyway not everyone lives in the same style of house!

You can get small dishwashers
Still wouldn't have been room in my last kitchen. Never bothered me.

but I’m genuinely amazed at how many people don’t have dishwashers
Why on earth does this amaze you?

C0untDucku1a · 20/10/2019 08:54

We’ve a combined income of £80, which isnt a lot by mumsnet standards, but not poverty. We have no dishwasher because it broke and we have managed fine without it. Now we have an extra kitchen cupboard.
We have not been abroad this year. That IS because we cant afford it as we are going on a once in a lifetime holiday next year. We can’t afford one this year abroad, but doesnt mean we have lived in poverty this year. We have however done centerparcs and butlins in school holidays, which would be the same amount as another family going abroad a day before schools finish when prices are significantly cheaper!
BUT if my children’s school wanted to give me money, id happily take it! If they have so much spare...

477964z · 20/10/2019 09:04

I am right up shit creek if school call.

Why would you be up shit creek if they called, butter?

Do you think meeting the threshold for further enquiry on this questionnaire automatically means social services rocking up at your door and spiriting your children away or something? Hmm

daisypond · 20/10/2019 09:10

We have a joint income of about 55k and I don’t think that’s too bad, even in London. We have a dishwasher, a microwave but no freezer. We also haven’t had a foreign holiday in several years. That is down to cost but I don’t think it makes us poor!

Laquila · 20/10/2019 09:20

Willow2017 I didn’t mention dishwashers! Clearly that’s not a great indicator for this, as the many, many replies on this thread support. I was referring to the posts that seemed to imply that regardless of the questions used, it was none of the school’s business whether a child or their family was struggling in poverty.

drankthekoolaid · 20/10/2019 09:23

Brilliant.

We don't have a microwave- pointless waste of space imo and we decided a dishwasher was not for us.

We never go on holiday abroad as it's my idea of hell - plane - hot - lots of people - no veggie food - and it's a waste of money. We usually go to Wales or Devon. It's personal choice.

Also, not going abroad could just be a family concerned about the environment!

What daft questions.

drankthekoolaid · 20/10/2019 09:24

I should add our household income is c80k so we are defo not in poverty.

DisneyMadeMeDoIt · 20/10/2019 09:26

DH and I didn’t have a dishwasher, or a microwave, or an abroad holiday last year...but I mean we only earn’t £85k between us (no kids)

It’s ok though because this year we had a £5k pay rise and managed all 3 of those things! Phew...that was a close brush with poverty for us huh?? 😂🙈😂

Stuff like this makes me actually a bit angry as I grew up in a ‘struggling’ family and NEVER considered we were ‘poor’ for lack of gadgets/holidays 🙄
Why not ask children questions like ‘Do you have dinner every night?’ Or ‘Is it nice and warm when you go to bed?’ Or ‘Do your parents read with you?’

Insinuating a child is living in poverty because they weren’t taken to some grotty Spanish all inclusive resort for a week is ridiculous. Abroad holidays, iPads, phones, microwaves, dishwashers. NOT markers of poverty. ARE markets of parent shaming 😡

Willow2017 · 20/10/2019 09:31

Laquila

The fact that the questions are not indicators of poverty is the problem.
Many parents would be getting a phone call due to those questions.
Using the questions via the kids is by stealth and a bit suspect with data protection.
There are far too many other factors to consider than just basing a judgement on a few frankly irrelevant questions about your family lifestyle.

Pinkblueberry · 20/10/2019 09:32

I suppose it depends if it’s out of choice or not? But I’m sure there are plenty of people who don’t use either - we only got a dishwasher once we had DC, there was no need to have one before that. And I had a friend who didn’t want a microwave because she was worried about the radiation - each to their own.

Willow2017 · 20/10/2019 09:35

477964z
Do you think meeting the threshold for further enquiry on this questionnaire automatically means social services rocking up at your door and spiriting your children away or something? Hmm

Crikey chill out with the sarcasm Butter was obviously joking!

C0untDucku1a · 20/10/2019 09:36

I asked my class of gadget loving students who had breakfast two weeks ago. one. And that was one of the children in care.

A lot of our students who dont have shoes the whole year, dont have appropriate clothing for the weather, dont have enough food and certainly not good food, also have lots of tech in their households.

Poverty is a much more complicated issue that money.

Rocktheboot · 20/10/2019 09:39

in therapy my DD was complaining about what a 'terrible' summer she had and it was all my fault. it was BORING. Therapist turned to me and sounded quite concerned; it was a long school holiday and she didn't know any other family that had only been away for 4 days!! 😮

Jinxed2 · 20/10/2019 09:40

That’s nuts! We have a microwave but our answer to the other two would be no!

ooooohbetty · 20/10/2019 09:42

How odd. I don't have a dishwasher and I don't want one. Nothing on that list is an indicator of poverty. Wonder who came up with the list?

danmthatonestakentryanotheer · 20/10/2019 09:46

I’m just curious as to why people do without

because I've never seen the point of dishwashers when I have a perfectly good sink and draining board.
I have a hob.
Holidays abroad are more trouble than they're worth.

RaininSummer · 20/10/2019 09:53

I wouldn't count any of those things as indicators if poverty either. Maybe they should ask things like do you ever eat out, do you have a computer at home, are you ever hungry with not enough food, do you get new shoes when you need them etc.