To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

[Tweedledeedumb]

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

We don't have a dishwasher, paid for holidays, central heating etc, or some things others take for granted nowadays.
We do have a microwave, and fridge. No working cooker, freezer, washing machine, dryer etc. The non-working ones are kept for show to keep the busy bodies at bay. (Dishwasher just makes me laugh.)
We have a recent central heating system we now have to pay additional rent for, but can’t afford to use.

Any increase in money is always wiped out by those demanding it's invested in upgrading their properties that we live in, or their schools, in other words, their investments.

We're not in poverty, but we are having to make careful choices on how what we have gets used, and surrounded by the rich wanting everyone to think they're lifestyles are 'normal.'

No child here has ever gone without a meal, used a food bank, been allowed to be miserably cold, or not had clean clothes, good shoes and a coat, or been left in the care of whoever we could find, hire, or call an au pair, or had blokes getting their feet under the table, unlike plenty of our better off neighbors, and we all know and recognize authorities snooping and how to respond when its encountered.

Schools and other institutions who like to use lower income families to try and raise their funding opportunities, need to use their power to attack the source of their funding shortages, and the way they've become funded, not abuse families circumstances to make up their shortfalls claiming its helping 'poor' families out. It isn't, it's propping up them.

I’m just curious as to why people do without*

I used to have one. Moved into a place that doesn't have room for one. Haven't missed it one bit.

...do you ever eat out? That's a marker of poverty? Really?

( My kids are deprived because we not only can't afford Maccy D's, Nando's, kebab etc, but if we could they still wouldn't be allowed them! )

LaurieMarlow do you really not understand that different people have different family sizes and different priorities?

As a family of 2 a dishwasher would just eat money that I'd rather spend on other things and take up space that I don't have. Dishes take 10 minutes if that in my house.

do you really not understand that different people have different family sizes and different priorities?

Why can’t I ask a simple question. I specifically stated for families who have the space and can afford it.

I personally find it hugely labour saving, so am curious as to why others don’t get one. I appreciate the answers given.

I’ve never had a dishwasher as I think it’s a bigger faff than just washing the pots.
I was speaking to a kitchen designer serveral years ago and he suggested a dishwasher and I refused. He commented that he’d previously been working down south and that they were much more popular down there.
I don’t know that many people that I either have one or use their dishwashers much.

No dishwasher here - I don't like them.
We've only just bought a microwave in the last year, after going without one for about 10 years. We rarely use it, but dcs are trying to do simple cooking in it, as a starting point.
We don't do holidays abroad. Too expensive.

Pre-kids I never had a dishwasher. Never felt the need. For two people washing up really doesn't take long. Five minutes a day I guess. Probably no longer than it takes to unload a dishwasher!

But now with kids, I'm dying for one. We're moving house next year and I can't wait. Feels like I spend half my life washing up.

God I love having a dishwasher. Didn’t have one until this house and it’s been a revelation. It’s so much easier to keep the kitchen clean and tidy and so much less hassle, no back ache from standing at the sink washing dishes, it’s genuinely improved my life massively. But I hate washing dishes, leaving them to dry, putting them away, just all so messy. It is amazing to just stick the dishwasher on every day or two and a couple hours later come back to fresh clean dry dishes. And it seems to get them a lot cleaner than I ever could by hand.

but I’m genuinely amazed at how many people don’t have dishwashers
Why on earth does this amaze you?

@Willow2017 only because it makes my life so much easier. I don’t actually give a shit what people choose to do. I do find it amazing that people who have the space/money for a dishwasher choose to do it by hand.

Same way I’d be surprised that people did all their own laundry by hand, or used non petrol/electric lawn mowers. It’s just interesting to know why people choose ways of doing things that take more time and effort.

By the time you load and unload a dishwasher you could have washed up and put away!
Not being able to eat out is a sign of poverty???? I should think having no food to eat in your cupboard was the real indicator of poverty for goodness sake!

Well, putting things in the dishwasher really takes no more time than putting them in the sink. And putting them away from the dishwasher takes the same amount of time as putting them away from the drying rack next to the sink.

I found the dishwasher not cost effective and honestly was purely a lazy choice. Since selling it I’ve had to clear out cupboards as we don’t have space for all the cups/plates/bowls as we basically had enough for full cupboards plus the dishwasher being full. Now I was up by hand it’s done instantly.

What kind of idiot thinks a microwave is ‘chavvy’

and honestly was purely a lazy choice

I’m not really following this point. Is washing dishes some kind of virtuous act?

Wait til my kid's school find out that I save the water from washing the dishes to water the house plants. I think perhaps the school don't really have any idea what it's like working with kids who are actually experiencing poverty. Just an inkling. Fwiw we have a microwave (I use it daily for warm milk and occasionally reheating tea!) but no dishwasher. Haven't been abroad since before we had a kid. We just got a national trust membership though, if you wave a NT sticker in their faces maybe they'll go away. :D

In order to target help they’re not going to ask children if they share beds, if they heat baked beans up on a radiator in bed and breakfast accommodation or if their mother doesn’t eat supper are they?
Perhaps it was ruling out the affluent rather than using it as a marker to ensure those struggling but keeping up appearances weren’t missed from support.
It also helps school funding and league tables if there are higher percentage of children registered for FSMs.

Since having DS I’ve not been a fan of foreign holidays, so we’ve only been on one in the last 5years (visiting in laws in France)

Until last year we didn’t have a dishwasher and we really are in no way poor.

We do eat out a lot though: but wouldn’t see someone who didn’t as being poor; just as someone who chooses to spend money differently

There are many kinds of poverty. Children of wealthy parents can also end up neglected - not necessarily hungry , but starved of attention, basic hygiene needs unmet, homework not helped with, unable to read because they haven’t been taken to the opticians, for example. They would not be picked up by that survey.

I had wealthy middle class parents who would never have dreamed of a dishwasher and to this day believe microwaves are the devil. I only remember a couple of foreign holidays but lots of travel within the uk. Ridiculous markets of poverty. I now live with my dc and rely on benefits. We struggle significantly day to day but have a microwave given to us,I dont know anyone that wants one that doesn’t. I wouldn’t have space for a dishwasher but that’s normal round here and thanks to relatives abroad who pay our flights my dc ger more foreign travel than the average. Really unrealistic markers

Poverty isn't a lack of a dishwasher/holiday/whatever...its a lack of money /food /and money to buy basics (like clothing /gas /rent/electric/water). It is hungry bellies, cold , illness, lack of opportunity, not knowing where your next meal will come from, it is getting upset when the school asks you for a contribution
of a pound because you don't have it. Its things breaking down and not replacing them, its runninv out, running low and desperation. Not not going to Spain or having a dishwasher. Jesus. I'd have laughed...and said why!

And not knowing if you will have a roof over your head.
Runnjng*

Running* fgs!