To be tired of the ‘racist UK’ remarks?

[AGermFreeAdolescent]

By that I mean people talking down the UK and say that it’s a racist country since Brexit. I appreciate everyone has their own experiences but I dislike when people say Brexit has made the UK more racist and make out it is more so than its EU counterparts when I, as a non white person, feel WAY more safe anywhere in the UK as I would compared to any other country in Europe. Can’t help but feel that the people that denigrate the UK for racism because of Brexit are white and have not visited countries in Europe as, or with, a person that isn’t white. Started this thread mostly because of the ‘shock’ about the racism that Bulgarian fans displayed to England and my first thought was ‘And this is a surprise, because...?’

An Indian relative of mine has been a British Citizen since the early 1980s. In all that time she says she has been racially abused to her face 'only' three times - all since Brexit.

I found that startling and really worrying.

And yes, I know that not all leavers are racists etc. etc.

It’s not more racist, however, the undercover racists are more emboldened to say what they would normally reserve for behind closed doors, online and in the street.

As a mixed raced person grown up and living in London I didn’t realise how much of a bubble I lived in until I went to Kent and genuinely felt unsafe and this was way before Brexit.

They were always there, they just resentfully kept their mouths shut until now. Personally looking forward to when tech to uncover online trolls past and present is widely released though.

I agree though that there are parts of Europe which are frighteningly worse and some of the people act like animals e.g. Bulgaria the other night.

To be fair I know of non white people inside and outside of my family who voted leave because they felt we were importing Neo-Nazis from Eastern Europe. I voted remain but I did notice that there were no quality checks regarding freedom of movement and all kinds of people were rocking up who looked like they’d just been released from prison working on building sites.

Why import people who don’t share our liberal views (and I mean that worldwide, not just Europe). We have enough UK born bone heads, we don’t need more potentially spiking the gene pool. I think if that had been properly addressed we wouldn’t be where we are.

OP, we may have less racism than many countries but it does not make the level of racism we have justifiable or anything to minimise. I think it has become more since 2016, though it is possibly those with racist views expressing them instead of being silent.

Bert, I was thinking the very same😂🙄

My friend, who is Finnish has been told 'go back to Poland or wherever it is you're from'

My nephew - white, English - was told the same thing while walking down the road minding his own business. He was quite bemused.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I have heard more racist comments, and friends have told they have experienced more racism. I agree that Brexit has emboldened a section of society to say things that would have been unacceptable a few years ago.

YABU - the UK is clearly a racist country.

Although I do find it odd when the concept of racism is applied to brexit. I reckon caucasian Europeans are the same race.

It' is very clear that a large chunk of support for brexit was driven by xenophobia. It would be fair to say that every country has its xenophobes. What marks the UK out is that we are collectively xenophobic enough to allow it to override more rational considerations and to commit a monumental and very public act of self-harm.

Although I do find it odd when the concept of racism is applied to brexit. I reckon caucasian Europeans are the same race.

In terms of racism, whiteness has never been about skin colour, it's been about nationality and culture, and people who don't conform to that are classified as not white, regardless of the pigmentation. Look at the debate in the US about whether Irish people were white, and how when they were eventually accepted as such, Italians became the subject of the same debate. It's about othering and oppressing people who don't conform to what some believe to be the dominant culture.

I agree with others, the veneer of politeness has been removed since the Brexit vote and people feel more free to say what they think.

That said Britain is a lot better than other countries. Britain has never had a mainstream fascist movement. There are some growing groups in Europe (some now in Government) that have links right back to the nazis. They make UKIP look like little fluffy bunny rabbits.

Jobbik, Golden Dawn, Lega Nord. Concerning in countries with a not so distant history of fascism.

I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist in the U.K. and of course it should not be tolerated but please put it in context.

This country has always been racist. Brexit has just made the racists more emboldened to say what they like!

All of the hoo ha over the Bulgarians has been quite telling. No mention when black players are subjected to racist abuse on the terraces every weekend in this country.

In terms of racism, whiteness has never been about skin colour, it's been about nationality and culture, and people who don't conform to that are classified as not white, regardless of the pigmentation.

I have seen this before, and I don't think it's a very helpful usage. How does racism by this definition differ from xenophobia?

I find it more useful to have a distinct concept which captures assumptions based on skin colour rather than conflating the two. (Veering somewhat off-topic!)

You may find it more useful, @Fiddlesticks, but @SaskiaRembrandt is entirely correct that there is a long history in both the UK and US of considering Irish people as racially inferior and ‘negroid’ — see endless racist 19th and early 20thc political cartoons equating Irish people and black people with one another in their perceived barbarity, inconvenient desire for civil rights/self-government and similarity to apes. In any case, ‘assumptions based on skin colour’ puts racism in the eye of the beholder, and gets us back to lightness privilege etc, and sets something like anti-semitism apart.

Agree with others that a nasty element has felt more able to be open about their hateful thoughts since Brexit. Racism, disablism, death threats to MPs etc

This isn’t in my workplace or friendship circle, but I see it in mainly older men in my wider family/neighbours. Not that I know anyone that’s acted on it, just bigoted opinions.

Maybe this country could spend less time being upset about being called racist and more time actually not being racist - just saying

@demelza82 totally agree it’s amazing how the racists have now made it so it’s actually more offensive to call out their racism than be racist!

I’m far more tired of actual racism than hearing about it. If people stopped being racist we wouldn’t need to talk about it. It’s really that simple.

“ How does racism by this definition differ from xenophobia? ”
Racism involves power. Xenophobia doesn’t.

@mordred do you know that your wife can report your neighbour, for hate crime to the police?

@samcro "odd that no one says much about disablism"..... no they don't do they. As per bloody usual we're expected to suck up.

Thanks for the explanations Bertrand and Heronry.

OP, I can see where you are coming from because racism is prevalent all around the world. However if people are telling us racism is getting worse in the UK then I believe them. I was recently in a taxi when a cyclist called the driver a ‘paki’. I was shocked and disgusted. The driver said it was common for him to experience abuse. Before witnessing that I doubted the UK had a racism problem. Now I realise I was naive.

@PanGalaticGargleBlaster haha I had know idea what Godwin's law was!

That is so interesting. Thanks for introducing me to the concept