To be tired of the ‘racist UK’ remarks?

[AGermFreeAdolescent]

By that I mean people talking down the UK and say that it’s a racist country since Brexit. I appreciate everyone has their own experiences but I dislike when people say Brexit has made the UK more racist and make out it is more so than its EU counterparts when I, as a non white person, feel WAY more safe anywhere in the UK as I would compared to any other country in Europe. Can’t help but feel that the people that denigrate the UK for racism because of Brexit are white and have not visited countries in Europe as, or with, a person that isn’t white. Started this thread mostly because of the ‘shock’ about the racism that Bulgarian fans displayed to England and my first thought was ‘And this is a surprise, because...?’

@OhSleepHowIMissYou comprehension failure!

You missed out the "we". The poster included themselves in the classification "English".

I suggest you get more sleep.

Racial tensions and racist behaviour in London?? Find that hard to understand unless it’s between non white races/cultures. When I visited recently its very diverse and multi cultural.

arf

@SleepOhHowIMissYou I don't think that I can be racist against my own country , can I?

Of course you can be prejudiced against your own people, look at self-hating Jews for example.

It is not a competition between countries who is the most racist. The statement that the UK has become more (openly) racist since Brexit stands, regardless of how the situation is anywhere else in Europe or rest of the world. And yes, the UK has become more openly racist and clear links can be drawn from the Brexit campaign which was profoundly xenophobic (the Turks are joining the EU warning, the refugees on the bus, to name just two rather large issues). Statements endorsed by national politicians.

The UK does have a problem with racism. That doesn't mean that it's more racist than any other country, but rather than wringing our hands about problems in other countries that we cannot resolve, we need to focus on addressing this issue in our own back yard.

I think there have always been racist elements in this country, but sadly, Brexit does seem to have made it more socially acceptable to express those views. My DH has certainly encountered more racist abuse since the referendum than he ever did before. Of course, this trend has not been helped by the fact that we now have a prime minister who has made openly racist statements.

Facing up to the ongoing problem in our own country doesn't mean that we're unaware of similar or even bigger problems overseas. It just means that we are trying to call out and challenge racism wherever we happen to encounter it.

@AbuelitaAyahuasca I disagree.

I love many things about the U.K.

However, I see the bad things. And if you don't know that we are known world wide as being :
The controlling, cruel, unfeeling country hat invaded everywhere - you are not looking at the truth.

We made many mistakes in the past of controlling and hurting other countries. And we need to look at that arrogant, cruel trait in ourselves.

I just had friends visit me from abroad, and they said "English people are so COLD".

How can we be nicer moving forward, how can we be more compassionate.

We do need to improve.

As much as I think a lot of people from the uk are tolerant

as someone who in one house as a child had dog shit smeared on our door and windows and posted through the letter box and had racist insults carved into the front door and car bonnet and then at another house I had to be escorted to school after threats of rape and we as a family had to move from this house in 24 hours under police escort after anonymous threats of fire bombing the house if they didn't get us out of their street due to skin colour I can tell you racism is alive and well and not even that hidden in this country.

I am very glad that your experiences have meant this isn't on your radar agerm you are lucky but you're experiences obviously just do not match others in this country.

However, I see the bad things. And if you don't know that we are known world wide as being :The controlling, cruel, unfeeling country hat invaded everywhere - you are not looking at the truth.

We made many mistakes in the past of controlling and hurting other countries. And we need to look at that arrogant, cruel trait in ourselves.

It's ridiculous to put the extent and success of British imperialism down to a national personality trait.

@heronry "the success of British imperialism", are you insane? Success is murdering millions of people and taking their land?

Countries can change. After World War two, Germany apologised, and made huge steps to change their communal way of thinking (that they were better than everyone else.) They made HUGE steps to not be like that again. And they are not like that now.

The U.K has not apologised to:
Ireland - we made 1 million people starve to death there
India - took over their country for a long time, and killed many people there. Under British rule, 29 million Indian people died in famine.The UK also made 10 million people leave their homes in India, due to partitioning.
*and many many other countries.

How on earth do you think that trail of murder is a "success"?

We need to very badly get rid of this superior way of thinking. We need to apologise to the countries that we have hurt. And we need to put implementations in - to change as a country.

Classes in school - that are against racism, and that everyone is equal.
Classes for adults to decrease racism.

Perhaps I misunderstood your comment, as it sounded to me like you were trying to dismiss the rise of populism in Eastern Europe and the links to Nazism. As your book shelf is full of it, then surely you would agree that it’s horrifying?

Of course it's horrifying, what a silly thing to say. However, right-wing populism is by no means restricted to Eastern Europe, or countries with histories of strong Nazi support (Polish populism, for instance, is to a large extent rooted in anti-German, anti-Nazi sentiment). It is everywhere at present, from the USA to Brazil to the British Isles.

As many PP have said far more more eloquently than me, the fact the other places have a problem with populism shouldn't blind us to the glaring problem with populism in our own backyard.

Sadly, just from talking to people in England right now - it seems to me that many people really enjoy the power of "English is best" and other countries are worse. And that they do not want to give that power up.

It takes a bigger person to look at themselves and at their country - and say what needs to change.

The government also needs to allocate funding to tackle racism.

They need to get people who have suffered racism, and the impact on their lives -

"the success of British imperialism", are you insane? Success is murdering millions of people and taking their land?

Sigh. Of course British imperialism was 'successful', whether or not you approve of its aims or methods and as someone from a former British colony who lost two great-uncles in the fight for independence, I can assure I don't. It ruled huge parts of the world, and generated enormous wealth and power for Britain. It was successful because of various factors, including Britain managing to keep out of European wars after it made peace with France until WWI, having the industrial revolution and a strong navy, as well as being a difficult to invade island itself not because British people are 'cold' and 'arrogant' or have a 'superior way of thinking'.

Or would you make similar claims of coldness and arrogance for the Dutch/Spanish/Portugese/Germans/Belgians/Italians/Japanese and other countries who had empires?

@heronry I just don't understand how you can call British Imperialism, "successful".

Was Nazi Germany invading nearly every country in Europe , "successful"?

Most people call it a hellish time, where millions of people were killed

My future DIL is Finnish, blond haired, blue eyed, she speaks excellent English. The only thing that "gives away" her non britishness is a slight accent. She came to the UK 2 years before the referendum and had no problems until June 2016. Since then roughly once a month she gets something on the lines of "fucking polish bitch, you'll have to go home when we leave". Naturally these brace patriots never say it when she is with my son or a Male colleague. Only when she is alone or with another woman.

Yabu I’ve seen more racist comments since brexit it’s awful

If you more attuned to racism, having experienced it, because you are in a minority or are disabled for example, it feels that the racists think they have the upper hand and that the tide has turned in their favour.

I just don't understand how you can call British Imperialism, "successful".

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, @angell84. Whether I approve of Google and Facebook's data harvesting is relevant to the fact that these are successful companies. The word 'success' doesn't imply approval of the ideologies of methods involved in achieving that level of reach/power/revenue.

I thought the perception of British people abroad was more because of the Brits Abroad trope than the UK's colonial history.

I've found the further you go from Britain the less you encounter that perception

Brits Abroad to most in Europe means beered up stag parties and lads on tour kinda things

@Heronry I am not being obtuse. I genuinely think you calling English Colonialist history "sucessful", is appalling.

I have never heard anyone referring to the Nazis, as successful, except for neo nazis, and white supremacists.

I will try to put myself in your shoes.

I could technically say that Nazi Germany were succesful because they acquired more land for themselves.
However in this process, they too land, human rights and lives from millions of people.

So unless I was a total psychopath, I would not call them succesful.

And you will find that most current Germans jink that is a shameful part of their history.

So why don't we grow up and call our history what it really is - shameful and brutal, not succesful.

I would call British Colonialism successful too. Because it achieved what it set out to do. That does not mean it was not also in many ways brutal and shameful. But it is a complex and nuanced issue.

Why should we be more selective? There’s no credible basis for what you’re saying. People who come over here, a lot actually tend to leave and go home at some point. It’s worth checking the research tbh

Can you please explain why it matters if immigrants are coming and going? What matters is net migration and its impact on a relatively small island-nation.

It's all well and good to say that you just develop the infrastructure to cope with rising populations, but we have a low birth rate (a virtue in this time of impending doom) - why should we relax the green belt to accommodate immigration?

If we limit immigration who is going to do the jobs that immigrants currently do?

I was in the company of someone who proudly proclaimed that they were the biggest racist you could ever meet. People used to be ashamed of being labelled a racist.

So why don't we grow up and call our history what it really is - shameful and brutal, not succesful.

@angell84, for a start it's not my history at all, as I'm not British, and as I've previously said, have more than enough understanding of the precise brutal costs of British colonialism. And I think you are very confused. I have not called British 'history' successful, or indeed said anything at all about British history, merely pointed out that the term 'success' does not, and never has, implied approval of the methods used to obtain that success. Let me be very clear. The British colonial enterprise was hugely successful. Its methods were atrocious.