To wonder about people's awareness of fertility decline

[Orangeblossom78]

decline I mean, in late 30s/40s. I know someone who on trying to get pregnant for the first time in their early 40s is shocked and devastated to be told of their fertility being low at this stage. AIBU but is is not usually apparent that our fertility declines after mid 30s and you can't just expect to have an easy time getting pregnant in early 40s.

Well said @Lexilooo - completely agree

@Helbelle17

Sorry I wasn't meaning to sound like I was writing anyone off in their 40s. My dad was 42 when my brother was born and he often comments on having far less energy than with his first two kids in his 20s. Though he is overweight and doesn't exercise so this is probably why. My mum is 54 and the fittest most high energy person I know, it didnt seem to affect her.

I had a baby at 34 and was the first one in my closest group of married, female friends. The common denominator is that most are focusing on career, paying off debts/mortgages, or simply forced to work until they find a job with maternity leave cover. Given the choice I don't think anyone would want to leave it so late but it's so difficult "fitting" a baby into modern life these days. I starting feeling broody around 28, however having a baby back then was out of the question as my work arrangements were too unstable.

Yes let’s hector women about not realising their fertility decreases while simultaneously expecting them to be in a good career, securely housed and with the right partner before TTC.

Of course we realise! And don’t need to be patronised by other women. Congratulations to those who had completed their families by their mid twenties, perhaps a bit of empathy for those who couldn’t do so, or didn’t want to do so then, wouldn’t go amiss.

Having conceived by accident at 44 and delivered at 45, I’m not sure it falls away quite as quick as some think.
My dm has me at 42 & my sis at 44. My ex’s sister conceived naturally at 43. My best friend conceived her son two weeks later than me.
Obviously if people are struggling to conceive, then it becomes an ever-present worry, but don’t start assuming you can’t conceive a late baby and taking risks, because mine is costing me a small fortune. I won’t be retiring early

I'm 35 and painfully aware.

The man I thought was going to marry me chose someone else over me and dumped the news on me a few months shy of 31. It took a good 18 months to even consider dating again and unfortunately I haven't met anyone since or even been asked on a date since my ex.

I wanted/want kids and have done since I was 15.

Sometimes life just doesnt deal you the right cards.

Instead of constantly blaming women like the Daily Fail often does, it would be nice if more emphasis would be put on educating men to step up at a younger age rather than messing young women around and then dumping them for a younger model when they hit 30-35.

Maybe I should have settled down with one of those dirty old men that frequently harassed me when I was 15+ despite them being old enough to be my father? At least I couldn't be blamed for neglecting my fertility .

and no sperm donation isn't an option, yes I have considered adoption thank you Mumsnet

A year ago my DSis, who was 40 at the time, was telling me that she would be 'cracking on with conceiving her first, because I will have to have my second almost straight afterwards' immediately after her wedding the following Easter. She met 'the one' 6 months before she told me that, having traveled a lot in her twenties and thirties. Engagement and marriage all followed very quickly because she was, in her words, 'desperate' to have a baby.

I said nothing, of course, but winced inside thinking 'You will be very lucky to have one'. I couldn't really believe that she thought it would be that easy, and that she was being very naive. Was it my place to put her right on that? Of course not.

She is 41 now, and has just been referred for IVF with ICSI due to her egg quality and her partner's sperm count. I desperately hope she is successful but I worry immensely about what might happen to her, and her marriage, if she doesn't.

This always seems to be framed as a 'female' issue but I think men should be made aware that their fertility also declines significantly with age, even if theirs is a 'best before' rather than an expiry date.

It’s definitely a matter of educating men AND women: not just because male fertility is also impacted by age, but because men need to be aware that if they’re in a relationship with a woman and want children with that woman it becomes both their problem if it’s left too late, and by default if the couple want children together they have to go by the woman’s fertility. Of course, you can split up and go have kids with a younger woman. But if a guy is in his thirties with a thirty odd year old partner and she’s ready for kids he really ought to be aware that delaying it for several more years could result in them not being able to have a child as easily as if they started sooner.

When I met DH I was 28 and him 24, it was a breath of fresh air to have the conversation about being ready for kids and not wanting to wait much past thirty and him to say ‘of course, makes sense’, compared to my ex who genuinely seemed unaware that we couldn’t just wait until nearly forty and have a child without severe risks. Thankfully he had studied medicine (DH, not ex!) so was clued up on fertility before we met. But months later when we were talking about that early discussion he mentioned that he’d found it attractive and smart that I was so forthright about having kids and my own awareness of my fertility. If it’d been purely down to him and he was with anyone else his age or younger he’d have preferred to have waited until he hit thirty for his first but in starting a relationship with a woman four years older he knew and embraced from the start that it would mean having children at a time that suited both of us (taking into account my age) not just his own preference.

I can see how shit this thread is making people feel. Hell even I feel shit and I’ve managed to have them!! People do seem to be coming across as smug and patronising even if they don’t mean to.

I’m going to hide the thread now.

I wish everyone TTC lots of luck and those planning on trying in the future lots more xx

And i apologise if that last post sounded braggy, it’s not intended to, I was very very lucky meeting DH at 28 given my issues (endo, blocked tube), lucky to have met someone who wanted what I did and to have been able to conceive in time. I did my time in a relationship with a man who messed me around going back and forth about kids for a while when I was desperately ready for a child and it taught me never to sell myself short again dating someone who didn’t want the same things as me (and naively hoping it’d somehow work out), but it was still lucky I met someone who DID want the same things in time.

However I still think it’s crucial people are aware of issues around fertility and age to give the best chance of being able to have kids if you want them, as I think people do sleepwalk into difficulties by presuming it’ll be fine later and later, it doesn’t magic up a willing partner but it can at least make you think carefully about who you start a relationship with, end a relationship that is taking your remaining fertile years, plan practically and financially for a family and make enquiries into what your options are if you haven’t met anyone and still want to become a mother. The more knowledge the better.

@Mintjulia I won't either.

@ Dandelion1993 - the children of older women tend to be more successful and intelligent because their mothers are. (as it’s the intelligent and successful women who tend to have their first kids in their thirties and forties)

We are all fully aware about the risks but there is a lot of total rubbish in this thread. It doesn't just drop off a cliff and you wont be lucky if you manage to have a healthy baby at 40. You are way more likely to have a baby than not even at this advanced age. The problem is you dont know if you will be one of the successful ones, however, this is the same no matter what your age. The real difference is if you are younger you have time to explore your options. A baby group I belonged too had a lot of older mothers and a lot of babies born through IVF. With one exception the mothers that had IVF all started TTC in their early thirties or younger.

I was 41 when I had DD, I got pregnant the second month after stopping contraception. My hospital did not consider me any higher risk than any other mother. In my midwifes own words older mothers are very common.

Good luck to anyone trying to conceive no matter what age.

Don't people think women are aware of the stats?

I think the upshot of the thread is that some women aren’t. Some women are and somehow think it won’t happen to them.

@GrumpyHoonMain I'd be interested in seeing some actual evidence for what you've just said, particularly in regards to intelligence. Isn't that the point of this thread, that actually it isn't always overly intelligent, despite it potentially being more practical in many respects, to leave it until your 40s because the statistics and risks are working against you? I suspect what you're referring too is down to socio-economic backgrounds rather than the loaded and less quantifiable "success" and "intelligence".

As someone who had two kids "late" (38 and 41) I would say that yes women are aware that fertility drops; that life isn't neat and tidy so we don't often plan our children based on our fertility; that until it happens to you you don't really know that it will; that you don't feel old, you don't feel any older than 2 years ago or 3 years ago or maybe a decade ago; that knowing that fertility drops isn't particularly helpful as a general rule when you don't know the specifics of your own fertility. By that I mean that the statistical probability is only a guideline and tells you little about your own probabilities. For example I knew that at 40 my chances of getting pregnant should be lower than previously. But I got pregnant immediately. But my sister spent her 20s on birth control to ensure she didn't become pregnant, only to discover in her 30s that she never would (and probably never would have).

I hate the way this is reported as something that women have to fix. I heard a doctor on the radio a while back advocating that women have their kids mid-20s and part of me was wondering how you work that if you're still training as a doctor then. It isn't like society actually wants to support women in having their children young or will legislate to ensure they aren't discriminated against in their careers if they have their kids when their male peers are building their careers.

And it's not as if loads of men are desperate to even get married before 35, let alone have kids.

• the children of older women tend to be more successful and intelligent because their mothers are. (as it’s the intelligent and successful women who tend to have their first kids in their thirties and forties)

Hilarious 😁 I know plenty of children who have plenty of children who prove to be an exemption from your theory. If anything they're more likely to be less intelligent, lower quality eggs and sperm.

@foodname . Here you go, the evidence that older mums breed more intelligent kids:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/children-born-older-mothers-more-intelligent-firstborn-cognitive-ability-a7582631.html

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26652679/

This is the study that shows older women breed smarter, taller, and stronger children:

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1728-4457.2016.00105.x?systemMessage=Subscribe+and+renew+is+currently+unavailable+online.+Please+contact+customer+care+to+place+an+order%3A++http%3A%2F%2Folabout.wiley.com%2FWileyCDA%2FSection%2Fid-397203.html++.Apologies+for+the+inconvenience.

@ hopityhopity - you probably don’t run in the same circles as I do. All of the mothers, like me, who delayed kids until 35-40 are richer, healthier, and generally more successful in life than the women who had them before 30. That type of health / success / wealth tends to have only positive impacts to babies.

Yes let’s hector women about not realising their fertility decreases while simultaneously expecting them to be in a good career, securely housed and with the right partner before TTC.

This

Is it just me or does the term "breeding" conjure up images of women as lifestock?

Fucking hell we are now arguing about who has more intelligent babies. I actually despair.

The anti-natalists are big on the dehumanising term 'breeders'. It's like a involuntary linguistic reflex to signal their inflated sense of superiority.

compared to my ex who genuinely seemed unaware that we couldn’t just wait until nearly forty and have a child without severe risks.

@18995168a “severe risks”? Are you always prone to such exaggeration?