To officially complain about this family

[Judgybitch]

Hi, i have name changed because i fear a flaming (hence name:))

I have been attending a baby group for the last 3/4 months or so and have now decided to stop going because of one mother and her son. This boy is the oldest child who attends and is about 3 and a half. He is very rough and every single week that goes by i have seen him deliberately hurt and been unkind to the younger children. This includes sitting on them, pushing things over onto them, snatching, invading space, running very quickly and literally taking them out with low toys at knee/shin height etc etc. you get the idea.

No particular child is targeted it just seems to be a general disregard for and enjoyment of getting into other's space and is his way of interacting with others. He has jumped onto adults (including me) and put his arms around their neck in a huggy way but rough enough to be very startling as it can feel like choking. He has hurt my son several times and today left him in tears and afraid of further interaction which is the final straw, i won't be returning.

Obviously i'm not a big enough bitch to blame a 3 year old for their behaviour and i only illustrate the above to show how serious this is. His mother very often leaves him to his own devices, not even looking and any discipline is rather...halfhearted, consisting of shouting 'Bobby NO!' or just odd. like making him go and apologize by 'hugging' the child that was hurt so basically this boy could do whatever he wanted and the only consequence was occasionally being made to hug another child.

I don't know how other mothers feel about this but after my son was hurt he didn't want this lad anywhere near him and the hugging (done before i could stop him) just made him more upset.

I have tried making very gentle suggestions to the mother and being helpful i.e. 'just to let you know bobby has done this' or 'please don't let him hug my son' but she will literally blank me and walk off. The staff actually do far more disciplining.

Anyway, i'm having a rant now. Obviously i'm not going back but i was pissed off enough when i was leaving yesterday to want to complain to the staff. Today i am calmer and thinking would it even do any good?

I doubt they would stop this family from coming so would complaining even be worth the time? The thing is i am the third mother i know who has stopped going for this specific reason and there must be many more. the group is unusually quiet compared to others in the same building at similar times so i have my suspicions.

I admit im judging the fuck out of her but not sure if i should do anything else or at least let the staff know why i won't be returning. This is a paid group so will effect their income.

These threads always go to shit when they descend into everyone speculating on the ‘why’ and moralising on that basis. It’s total MN bingo:

• at that age, mine knew right from wrong
• maybe the child has SEN?
• maybe the mother is depressed / has other challenging circumstances

Blah blah blah. Some 3 year olds can be very aggressive - whatever the background is on that, it doesn’t help to moralise about it. The onus is on the adult caring for that child to hover over them and intervene as many times as necessary to stop them from hurting others. I sympathise with any parent who is struggling, and I don’t like seeing people sneering about it, but nonetheless there is no excuse for inaction.

Echoing the family member of a now-lovely-15yo upthread - maybe the playgroup leader intervening would be a positive turning point for that child and family. I think sometimes we get so worn down by hard stuff we lose track of what is or isn’t normal/acceptable.

I wonder if you actually know the child is about 3 and a half?
He might possibly be a year younger in a big body.
I say this because mine was very big and also very verbal at an early age, he was often taken for much older than he was.

The harsh reality is, it doesn't matter why this child is hurting other children. What matters is the fact this child is hurting other children. No other child should be hurt in any circumstances, especially not by the same individual on a regular basis.

Until the child's mother teachers this child how to behave/steps in and disciplines/educates when things happen, and apologises to parents for their child's behaviour, they shouldn't be allowed to attend this meet.

Plenty of SN/SEN parents are on-top of their child's behaviour. Plenty of parents are on-top of their neuro-typical child's behaviour. Plenty of single mothers/single fathers are on top of their child's behaviour. If she is struggling, that's okay, but she needs to seek help and make improvements rather than letting her child run riot.

If my child was the one being hurt week in, week out, quite frankly I wouldn't give a shit to what the mother's reason is for her child being out of control. I'd want her to leave. If that makes me harsh, that's fine, but ultimately my own child is my priority, not someone else's.

At twins club when mine were tiny, there was a big rug to put babies down on. One of the big twins there, probably about 3yo, rushed across the babies' rug and hurdled my babies. I didn't go back!

Drabarni - exactly

Children with challenging behaviour have 'unmet needs' according to current literature. There is a scale of a wide range of 'unwanted' behaviours whether a child has SN or not. It's the parent's responsibility to fulfil these needs by ensuring correct supervision and arranging support from professionals where necessary.

My daughter was targeted at primary school by a particular boy and would come home with torn sweatshirt cuffs, torn hoods and physical injuries because of the boy's fondness for swinging her around against her will. I was once contacted at work to pick my 'hysterical daughter ' up from school immediately. He had body slammed her against a wall, winding her and screamed in her ear, bursting her eardrum. It was the last straw - I got the police involved. Why is it ever acceptable to go to school and be deliberately assaulted? Why do schools attempt to brush this under the carpet? It turns out other parents were then queuing up to also put their complaints to the police with regards to the assaults done on their children. If I'm assaulted in the street I would call the police - not think aww that's ok they are only displaying challenging behaviour. Everyone has the basic human right to use/share spaces which are safe from harm. Everyone has a duty of care towards all children - this is legislated for.

It's happening all over again - I look after my granddaughter because her mother works full time. We attend dance classes, music groups and gym classes which aren't cheap - £6-£7 for 40 mins. (She's two). There are an increasing number of children who spoil the sessions. These are guided adult led 'lessons'. My granddaughter has been bitten, pushed, punched, slapped and deliberately tripped over. Guardians are supposed to be involved in these sessions - lots of guardians blocking doorways smoking and furiously prodding at their phones expecting that their children will be supervised by the 'unpaid babysitters' inside.
How parents absolve themselves of responsibility for their child's actions is beyond me.

Children reflect the behaviour that they experience - unmet needs result in a varying degree of expressions of unwanted behaviours. SN children have greater needs for a myriad of reasons. All children display unwanted behaviours - it's not acceptable for these behaviours to go unaddressed. Certainly not to the extent where others are hurt.

Yes - I have children/grandchildren with special needs.

Level 2 Behaviour that Challenges in Children covers the whole range of behaviours and how to approach these and prevent them from occurring - for everyone's sake, including the child with inappropriate behaviour.

Google it. It's freely available - knowledge is very useful.

The group is bound to close due to this one problem mother not being able or willing to control her child . You really need to vote with your feet plus tell the organizers why you will be leaving.

This has nothing to do with SEN. SEN/SN or not the boy has been ignored by BOTH of his parents while in this play group. You wouldn’t ignore this behaviour from a neuro-typical child and certainly wouldn’t from a non-NT child for fear he may be misunderstood. This is just a case of poor parenting.

stressedout *could HAVE SEN (could ‘be special educational needs’? Wtf?!)
*their
*wits

Also, the parents desire for ‘their time’ can be any number of places other than letting their offspring attack other people and be feral, eg. have a bath whilst someone else parents the kid, whatever. It’s not ok for people to attack others, no matter the age.

You always get the ‘but he may have SEN’ remarks- but he may also be a little shit because his parents haven’t disciplined him. I would be open and honest with the leaders and say you are going to stop and why. See what they say?

I’d say you’re decamping to a group with a narrower age range because of the “incompatibility” between the strong, boisterous 3.5 year old and the little ones.

I wouldn’t bother, they’re not going to do anything. Most baby groups are associated with Churches or state funding and their focus is inclusivity. It’s usually part of their remit to help parents who are struggling in some way or isolated and to be supportive. I know in my area health visitors offer them as the first point of call when parents are having difficulties.

I’d also say you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes in terms of support they’re offering.

You could mention it in passing in a fairly neutral way. But complaining in high dudgeon will achieve zilch.

If enough people calmly mention it as a factor in leaving, later cohorts might benefit from split age groups.

It’s unfair on managers not to gently feedback on issues arising.

I would tell the class leader that you’re thinking of stopping, as you know many others have done, because of that particular child running riot. Any group leader, especially in a paid for group should have no problem approaching the mother and saying “would you mind supervising LittleShit more closely please? He’s being a bit rough”.

She might not like being called out on it, and can be the one that leaves the group

I have two autistic children but the one thing I've always been clear about with them are standards of expected behaviour.

They know damn fine not to hit or hurt other people. They were taught this from a very young age.

Children need guidance and will behave like this if they have no boundaries.

Most of the time, I'm shattered. Mentally and emotionally exhausted. My kids are one year apart in age so it would've been an easy excuse to say "I'm so busy with the baby" and allow my eldest to run riot.

I just don't get people who allow their kids to behave like this. We had one girl at our playgroup who was a year older than my child but looked several years older. She would just run at kids, completely oblivious, knocking them over like they were skittles. The Mum was so busy chatting and was also bloody oblivious.

It used to really annoy me as every time she went near her, my child would end up on the floor. Just teach your kid to be careful. It doesn't hurt them to say "be careful of the little ones" or "No! Child x doesn't like it when you do that".

Just fucking laziness from the parents.

I've had this at a group - a biting, hitting child whose GM would then make him 'apologise' by giving a hug. My DC definitely did not want the kid near him.

report it, of course.

Or this poor child could be sen

Even if that is the case that’s no excuse for him to be allowed to hurt other children.

Or this poor child could be sen and poor mum is at there whits end and doesn't have the emotional energy to do more. Maybe she needs this time as her only break but yes go ahead and judge. So you’re fine with the other children being hurt then? Honestly, I am sorry IF a child has some sort of issue, but fed up with everyone else being expected to put up with violent behaviour.

Apologies for singling you put @Ibiza2015 but

I wouldn’t bother, they’re not going to do anything. Most baby groups are associated with Churches or state funding and their focus is inclusivity

Still no reason not to challenge a parent on their child’s rough behaviour at the group though.

It’s usually part of their remit to help parents who are struggling in some way or isolated and to be supportive. I know in my area health visitors offer them as the first point of call when parents are having difficulties

Which is why it would possibly start a positive chain of events if the OP informs the leader of the group and leader has a word.

I’d also say you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes in terms of support they’re offering

Doesn’t matter. They have a duty of care to uphold and allowing one kid to be all over others and having parents fear for their kid’s safety is massively wrong. And massively fixable.

You could mention it in passing in a fairly neutral way. But complaining in high dudgeon will achieve zilch

Anyone can see this poster is not in high dudgeon, quite the opposite. Chances are the conversation WILL start in a fairly neutral way, the OP is having a dilemma whether to have it or not.

"They know damn fine not to hit or hurt other people. They were taught this from a very young age."

Mine has severe autism and still hits or becomes too physical with others ( care givers and others if care givers aren't on the ball) because he doesn't have the understanding despite being taught this from an early age.
However the poster who said this is not about sn is right. If you have a child who is prone to this you need to give them constant close supervision and remove them if they have got worked up.

@Stressedout10 this drives me nuts.

Oh it's ok they might have special needs so ok darling carry on beating the shit out of everyone. It's ok, your sen. It's totally acceptable.

Parent your kid!

Thank you @Spikeyball - you totally understand

Op I really thought we must of gone to the same group at first but it was a little girl. I went once and never went back she was just a bull in a china shop I can see she was quite sweet but pushed DS who was 20 months at the time over twice in about 10 minutes, everything any child picked up she tried to take off of them it was hell and as much as I hate to admit it she pushed me over I know she’s 3 and I’m an adult woman but I was crouched down not on my knees on 2 feet sort of very low squatting showing DS something and she ran up behind me and through her arms around me from the back.. causing me to FACEPLANT the floor and I’m not even exaggerating I couldn’t put my arms out because she was hooked on to me! It was truly awful! Op I don’t blame you at all.

I hated babygroups because I had to helicopter DS and it was so much more boring and stressful doing that inside than in a park or playground. I couldn't be tempted to leave him and "chat," either, as the grownups already had their own friends to talk to. Playgroups are simply not for everyone.

(Also, ugh at hugging to make it better.)

Yanbu. Even if he has sen, it is not acceptable that every other child should just accept that they can be hurt.
I attended a group as such, the organizer asked them to leave or pay for one on one sessions if they wanted to as it's become negative for every other parent and child. They chose to leave.