To officially complain about this family

[Judgybitch]

Hi, i have name changed because i fear a flaming (hence name:))

I have been attending a baby group for the last 3/4 months or so and have now decided to stop going because of one mother and her son. This boy is the oldest child who attends and is about 3 and a half. He is very rough and every single week that goes by i have seen him deliberately hurt and been unkind to the younger children. This includes sitting on them, pushing things over onto them, snatching, invading space, running very quickly and literally taking them out with low toys at knee/shin height etc etc. you get the idea.

No particular child is targeted it just seems to be a general disregard for and enjoyment of getting into other's space and is his way of interacting with others. He has jumped onto adults (including me) and put his arms around their neck in a huggy way but rough enough to be very startling as it can feel like choking. He has hurt my son several times and today left him in tears and afraid of further interaction which is the final straw, i won't be returning.

Obviously i'm not a big enough bitch to blame a 3 year old for their behaviour and i only illustrate the above to show how serious this is. His mother very often leaves him to his own devices, not even looking and any discipline is rather...halfhearted, consisting of shouting 'Bobby NO!' or just odd. like making him go and apologize by 'hugging' the child that was hurt so basically this boy could do whatever he wanted and the only consequence was occasionally being made to hug another child.

I don't know how other mothers feel about this but after my son was hurt he didn't want this lad anywhere near him and the hugging (done before i could stop him) just made him more upset.

I have tried making very gentle suggestions to the mother and being helpful i.e. 'just to let you know bobby has done this' or 'please don't let him hug my son' but she will literally blank me and walk off. The staff actually do far more disciplining.

Anyway, i'm having a rant now. Obviously i'm not going back but i was pissed off enough when i was leaving yesterday to want to complain to the staff. Today i am calmer and thinking would it even do any good?

I doubt they would stop this family from coming so would complaining even be worth the time? The thing is i am the third mother i know who has stopped going for this specific reason and there must be many more. the group is unusually quiet compared to others in the same building at similar times so i have my suspicions.

I admit im judging the fuck out of her but not sure if i should do anything else or at least let the staff know why i won't be returning. This is a paid group so will effect their income.

This mum isn't looking after her child to the detriment of all the other children. She needs to be addressed before something worse happens than everyone else abandoning the group.

I would let the staff know why you are leaving, but I suspect they know the issue and aren't willing to confront the mum.

As for the child possibly having SEN; that is not a good reason to allow a child to hurt or injure anyone else. If this mother is at her wit's end and hasn't the energy to intervene more does that make it OK for other kids to be terrorised?

OP put your child first, that is your responsibility.

I think you should definitely tell the organisers....but in person or over the phone rather than in a text or email.

@Judgybitch awful behaviour. My DD is now 3.5 and she knows right from wrong, he is old enough to know that it not acceptable.

Definitely send the email and outline your concerns. You could be stopping an absolute disaster.

I wouldn't complain as such, but I would explain. I would simply tell the organisers that you have had problems with another child persistently upsetting and hurting your baby and that you don't feel comfortable attending the group any longer. You don't even need to name names. (They will probably know anyway.) It is up to them what they choose to do with that information, but I think that it is entirely reasonable to let them know how other people are feeling about the situation.

At the playgroup my husband and I used to go to (separately) there was a similar child.

I don't think he was a bad boy, just desperate for attention. His cow of a mother saw the session as a nice opportunity to spend an hour on her phone.

He knows he is hurting them he just doesn't care like any 3 year old would. the difference is that most 3 years olds get consequences well before they know why and learn that no means no.

I think it would be better to inform the organisers so they can speak to her on behalf of the group. That way, she can't dismiss your observations and pretend to herself that you're just being an interfering cow!

If it's semi-official, she'll have to face up to his behaviour or be asked to leave the group.

I actually would say it too, in my mind I’m thinking hmm does this child have special needs that might explain it, but it’s the fact you are saying he is left to his own devices is as big an issue as the behaviour. I know you can’t have eyes at the back of your head but I do think if you have a little guy or gal with a habit of harming the other kids you do need to up the supervision game as it’s unfair on the other kids! So you wouldn’t be in the wrong to mention it. I know the mammy is there to socialise too but you can’t have that behaviour happening either if it’s constant, it would be different if it was a rare thing all kids have their moments! and if she is being indifferent about it too rather than concerned that’s not great either! I’m sorry you are leaving the group now it’s a shame if you enjoyed it otherwise.

@Stressedout10

The safety of other children trumps the mothers ‘possible’ exhaustion. I’m amazed how some parents are not mortified by their children’s horrific behaviour.

Bobby's mother sounds like she is trying but, presuming he's also like this at home, she is probably exhausted. I'm not excusing the behaviour but I think slating her is wrong when none of us here have walked a mile in her shoes. Based on my own experiences of having a toddler who was a handful, she probably goes to the group because he's even worse at home and if she has sought help she'll have likely been told by the HV, etc to "get him out to groups".

Email the organisers, you could say you don't want her banned but ask them to tactfully have a discreet word with her about Bobby's behaviour without mentioning any names.

Or this poor child could be sen And? My DS has ASD but didn't mean I let him run riot doing what he wanted while I sat on my arse doing nothing about it...

Stressedout10

A child having special needs isn't a free pass to allow them to hurt other children or to abdicate from being responsible for their actions. If you have a child who for whatever reason has hurt other children you have a responsibility to be close enough to them to prevent future occurrences. If you unable or unwilling to do so then you either need to take someone with you who is able and willing or not attend!

@mathanxiety

Whenever i speak to the mother even very kindly about her son she blanks me. Even the time this lad grabbed me round the neck from behind, i told her in a 'just to let you know' way and...nada silence then she just walked away.

I did shout at him when he jumped on me, told him very loudly not to do that and to go 'find your mother' he looked rather shocked like no one had raised their voice to him before. I admit i was rather startled and so was louder then usual.

Why not just have it out in no uncertain terms with the mum right there?

Or wade in and firmly correct the 3 year old?

Because if there is one guaranteed way to start a shouting argument in the middle of a toddler group, this would be it?

You can see what will happen when the child starts school.
The parent will deny any problem.

I sympathise. My experience (a fews years ago now) is that there's always one - in every playgroup, club, class whatever. That kind of rough behaviour usually comes from somewhere (especially at such a young age) - maybe he's being pushed around by an older sibling, cousin whatever. Unless he has obvious learning difficulties I do think it falls to the parents to teach their children to be kind (and they do need to be taught - they are not instinctively kind). I don't blame you for taking evasive action - I don't imagine speaking to the mother would achieve anything. No advice - watching thread to see what others would do.

Unless he has obvious learning difficulties

Obvious like what? Learning difficulties aren't visible to the naked eye.

Or this poor child could be sen And? My DS has ASD but didn't mean I let him run riot doing what he wanted while I sat on my arse doing nothing about it...

Yep, you can't simply ignore it. My friend's son has ADHD and she refused to deal with his behaviour when he was at nursery. They asked her in several times to discuss his behaviour and when nothing changed, she was asked to remove him unless she took some action. She finally sought help and he was diagnosed, his behaviour's fine now that it's being managed (he's on medication, has had some therapy).

This poor child could end up in a similar situation if the Mum doesn't address his behaviour, whatever the root cause.

@Stressedout10 - SEN doesn't trump basic safety.

Or this poor child could be sen and poor mum is at there whits end and doesn't have the emotional energy to do more. Maybe she needs this time as her only break but yes go ahead and judge

There's always one isn't there 🙄
Firstly a child doesn't 'be SEN', they HAVE SEN.
Secondly, having a child with SEN doesn't mean you can opt out of parenting your child, in fact, one could argue that the child may need more support, reminders and consistency of expectations if they have SEN. The mother's hypothetical 'need for a break' absolutely does not come before tiny children's rights not to be hurt by this child.

OP, I think you'd be more than justified in letting the staff know, in a non-judgemental way, the reasons for you leaving. It's incredible how just one person can alter the dynamics of a group like this and if word gets around they may struggle to shake off the idea among potential new parents that their child will get hurt at this group.

I stopped going to a playgroup because of a pair of similar boys. They were cousins, cared for by grandparents who were not really up to looking after them. After the 4th time my ds got bashed I picked him up and walked out. I didn't feel able to say anything because the grandparents were very close to the lady who organised the group so just left.

A few weeks later, in a half term so playgroup not on, they happened to be at the same soft play place as us. Both boys being absolute thugs, pushing over the under 3s in the under 3 area, running riot in the big bit, ganging up on other dcs. I watched them push over a little dote of a girl them slap her because she wouldn't give them the foam thing she was playing with.

I did feel able to say something there and then to the grandparents. In fact I gave them a bit of a bollocking. Told them they must supervise them properly, they were hurting other children and were too old for the under 3s section and it wasn't on. It had gone awfully quiet by this point and I felt a right cow until someone piped up 'well said, was just about to say the same'.

So yes, definitely say something if you feel you can. Either directly to the parent or yhe organisers because you are probably just saying what every one else thinks.

As much as the parents should be doing more, so should the staff who run the group!

I would definitely complain, so that perhaps they can put better practice into place.

I doubt he's the first child to act this way and I sincerely doubt he'll be the last either.

YDNBU

this is actually really close to home for me right now as one of the mums I chat to at playgroup just had a (proper) telling off from another mum because of really rough behaviour from her 3 year old. Trouble is she’s there solo with a 2 year old too and a newborn.

Problem is this kid is forever angry; he’s obviosuly boiling over about something (new baby) and his mum is just too wiped to do anything and is often feeding or dealing with 2yo to notice him frequently roughing up other kids, some barely walking.

However this week things came to a head, it was lousy but the volunteers gently suggested that she leave for the day and see if she could come next time with DS just one on one so she could watch him like a hawk. Poor woman was actually distraught as I think the group is a social lifeline but it was just getting too much.

I don’t know if she’ll be back, and I actually wanted to cry for her but put simply her kid was endangering others and she didn’t have the capacity to supervise hence her being asked to take him out and allowed back only 1:1.

The same needs to happen here but as she’s 1:1 already, without the “come back” bit.

TLDR; it’s crummy but necessary to request mum and kid don’t attend again. That has to be down to the volunteers.

Or this poor child could be sen and poor mum is at there whits end and doesn't have the emotional energy to do more. Maybe she needs this time as her only break but yes go ahead and judge

And that totally gives the child the right to frighten and injure others, and the mother is obviously entitled to take no responsibility for her son's behaviour at all.

What a judgey bitch you are Judgeybitch - and you and the other mothers are so selfish, to want to protect your children. Don't you realise that this "crushing other children into the dust time" is the only opportunity that poor woman has to have five minutes peace?

Instead of judging her, why not give her little one a cricket bat so he can really get rid of some of that excess energy?

@AdultFishcakes that's awful, sadly, but everyone should have a right to feel their kids are safe.

I think anyone who organises such groups should make sure they have contacts for health visitors Home Start etc. to be able to signpost or refer parents to professionals who can help, not just 'ban' them.