To officially complain about this family

[Judgybitch]

Hi, i have name changed because i fear a flaming (hence name:))

I have been attending a baby group for the last 3/4 months or so and have now decided to stop going because of one mother and her son. This boy is the oldest child who attends and is about 3 and a half. He is very rough and every single week that goes by i have seen him deliberately hurt and been unkind to the younger children. This includes sitting on them, pushing things over onto them, snatching, invading space, running very quickly and literally taking them out with low toys at knee/shin height etc etc. you get the idea.

No particular child is targeted it just seems to be a general disregard for and enjoyment of getting into other's space and is his way of interacting with others. He has jumped onto adults (including me) and put his arms around their neck in a huggy way but rough enough to be very startling as it can feel like choking. He has hurt my son several times and today left him in tears and afraid of further interaction which is the final straw, i won't be returning.

Obviously i'm not a big enough bitch to blame a 3 year old for their behaviour and i only illustrate the above to show how serious this is. His mother very often leaves him to his own devices, not even looking and any discipline is rather...halfhearted, consisting of shouting 'Bobby NO!' or just odd. like making him go and apologize by 'hugging' the child that was hurt so basically this boy could do whatever he wanted and the only consequence was occasionally being made to hug another child.

I don't know how other mothers feel about this but after my son was hurt he didn't want this lad anywhere near him and the hugging (done before i could stop him) just made him more upset.

I have tried making very gentle suggestions to the mother and being helpful i.e. 'just to let you know bobby has done this' or 'please don't let him hug my son' but she will literally blank me and walk off. The staff actually do far more disciplining.

Anyway, i'm having a rant now. Obviously i'm not going back but i was pissed off enough when i was leaving yesterday to want to complain to the staff. Today i am calmer and thinking would it even do any good?

I doubt they would stop this family from coming so would complaining even be worth the time? The thing is i am the third mother i know who has stopped going for this specific reason and there must be many more. the group is unusually quiet compared to others in the same building at similar times so i have my suspicions.

I admit im judging the fuck out of her but not sure if i should do anything else or at least let the staff know why i won't be returning. This is a paid group so will effect their income.

Stressedout10 my oldest child has SEN needs and it’s exhausting. Yes I do get worn out with it but that doesn’t make it okay for me to sit back and let him hurt other kids.

At 3 years old he was frequently hitting or hurting other kids to the point I feared he would never have friends or stop but at 7 he rarely hits and normally only when seriously provoked by another child. He learned it wasn’t acceptable as neither me or his dad sat back and let him do it because we were “stressed and needed a break”. Every single time was dealt with by consequences and discussions about how he should have handled things. Just yesterday he told another little boy that his behaviour was unacceptable and he should stop being mean to him and other kids as they wouldn’t play with him if he didn’t stop. A year ago he would have just hit this child rather than tell him to stop being mean.

He now has a lovely little group of friends both at school and home. I doubt this would be the case if we hadn’t dealt with him hurting or being rough towards other kids.

As a parent you need to deal with your child hurting other kids every single time no matter how tired or stressed out you are how for your own child’s sake as well as other kids.

@Curious, those other parents were adults, they were extremely unpleasant, and they did not respect the legal obligation to accept SEN in the community, including through inclusive mainstream education. Yes, I judge them for that, because they were out of order.

There's an awful 3 year old at a group we go too. The mother also half-heartedly says 'don't do that', doesn't even make him apologise or apologise to the child.
Toxic masculinity is something that starts young, men don't just become toxic overnight.
I've taught my daughters to hit him back if he hurts them. Unpopular to have children stand up for themselves these days but I disagree with that so that's how we're handling it. If he ever hurt one of mine he'd be getting told off by me too since his mother can't be bothered.

I can’t stand parenting like this. I would leave and tell them exactly why.

those other parents were adults, they were extremely unpleasant, and they did not respect the legal obligation to accept SEN in the community, including through inclusive mainstream education. Yes, I judge them for that, because they were out of order. You're missing my point!

They were probably focussed on protecting their kids. Just as you were yours. When one kids is regularly hurting others most parents would forget about the legalities of schooling, they'd just want their kids to be safe.

That you found that to be judgmental and nasty is because of the situation you were in. It's pretty certain that the other parents thought they were in a horrid sitation too. I am not saying they were right and ou were wrong, far from it. Just that when it comes to your kids getting hurt finer values and empathy can often fly out of the window!

@AnotherQuirkyUsername

Mmm...I wonder if it's the same place. My GD is 15 months and not quite walking. Last Thursday around 1pm til about 1.45 we were there. We left early....

Yep I’d be telling the playgroup and also I’d be intervening if I saw anything - saying no hitting - no you are hurting you can’t do that.

I don’t care where I am or what age the children need to see the adults intervening.

I think anyone who organises such groups should make sure they have contacts for health visitors Home Start etc. to be able to signpost or refer parents to professionals who can help, not just 'ban' them.

One thing to note is that the “organiser” of such groups is often not an official organiser but just someone who fell into the role

This is what generally happens to me (and I’ll give an example of a playgroup although it also happens in every sport my kids do.)

1. Attend nice playgroup with my kids.
2. Realise that everyone fucks off 5 minutes before the end leaving “mum in charge” to put everything away on her own. Stay and help. Have nice chat with “mum in charge” at the same time.
3. Always stay and help tidy up afterwards. Feel bad when dd is ill / tired / grumpy and need to leave early.
4. “Mum in charge’s”son is ill and she needs to take him home. Can I lock up. Do so.
5. “Mum in Charge” goes on holiday. Can I open up and be in charge that week. Do so. All fine. It is suggested I keep spare key just in case.
6. “Mum in Charge”’s son starts school. Can I take over for the next few weeks while he settles in.
7. Never see “Mum in Charge” again.
8. Suddenly realise I am now “Mum in Charge”. How the hell did that happen????? (Or as dh puts it “how the hell did that happen to you again”.)

Please don’t bring sen into it anyone. Have two with sen kids and any hurting us intervened. Obviously I do this as my children cannot take traditional telling off - however it is dealt with!

If it carries on I remove them. If they can’t handle a whole session without hurting others I bring them for 10 mins and work up.

It’s not the same as having a meltdown without hurting others - or strange behavior. That should be tolerated where possible.

Well said Venger

My bil was thrown out of a playgroup run by his own mother. He’s the nicest man you could meet now

There's always one isn't there 🙄
Firstly a child doesn't 'be SEN', they HAVE SEN.
Secondly, having a child with SEN doesn't mean you can opt out of parenting your child, in fact, one could argue that the child may need more support, reminders and consistency of expectations if they have SEN. The mother's hypothetical 'need for a break' absolutely does not come before tiny children's rights not to be hurt by this child.

Spot on.

If the mother needs a break for any reason, she needs to find a different way to make that happen.

@Poppinjay 100% agree and is unfortunately why I now choose not to attend many sen groups as there are some parents who use it as a break and expect everyone else to just tolerate their kids hurting others. Without intervening. Other sen kids don’t want to be hurt either!

@TwoPupsandaHamster I was definitely there at that time , I arrived around 12.30 and left at closing time (a very long stay but ended up bumping into a friend there) would be a strange coincidence if not the same place.

I agree with most of the points about SEN except for the OP stating that the child 'speaks and is interactive' so she thinks there's no SEN. This drives me bloody insane. Many, many non neuro-typical children speak and interact and, you know, behave like regular children. Except they're not. My DS has ADHD, autistic traits and is severely epileptic but by LOOKING at him you wouldn't know obviously! That's why so many like the OP judge because they need a huge sign!

@snoop true. It also isn’t really on to just expect sen to be allowed to be aggressive and others not. For me inclusivity is having some expectations that apply to all even if there are difficulties meeting these expectations. We still try not just ignore them.

@AnotherQuirkyUsername

Very strange 🤔 I didn't have the courage to take her back today. Maybe next week...

longlongsummer I agree, as I said I agree with most of the points made about SEN. The point I was making is that so, so many people judge my son, my parenting and my partner's parenting just because my son walks, talks and presents as mainstream. And by that I mean when he's perfectly polite, thoughtful and doing no harm to anyone ( we are by his side constantly and never allow poor behaviour) but may act in a more individual way or be a little loud or unusual. For all this ' we understand society I see little of it in day to day life.

@Stayawayfromitsmouth

I said there was no obvious sign of SN but also said that even if there was her parenting was inadequate.

What should i have said in response to the SN question? Oh ok i wont bother doing anything in case he has special needs? No, i said there was no obvious special needs but what else could i have said? I can only say what i observe. I didn't say 'and therefore i declare he has no SN' in the face of an apparently NT child i assumed he was NT. The behaviour is unacceptable regardless.

Its hardly relevant but my toddler has suspected SEN issues and several delays but you wouldn't think so to look at him. he is just quiet and shy and small for his age.

Yeah Stressedout10

Or she couldn't care less and lets het children hurt other children. But,as you say, who are we to judge?

@Snoopdog I didn’t word my post very well, but I was also agreeing with your point too. I’ve been told he ‘looks fine’ plenty of times, however he then usually does something pretty dramatic! It’s exhausting we have to manage and interpret their needs - and I have had several occasions where I have had other parents get really cross as DS has gone mental if their child mucked up his particular order of toys, and it can look like quite a dramatic reaction. On top of that the way that I have to handle it is not to say ‘stop that is naughty’ as that is ineffective and meaningless to DS - but in quite a different way...
... and the parent watching is thinking wtf?!

I’ve actually now developed a bit of a ‘patter’ where I am dealing with DS (Usually in a non verbal way) but also providing an short explanation verbally to other parents concerned at the same time. It’s quite mad and exhausting really.

So yes. Totally feel for you.

Email the organisers, you could say you don't want her banned but ask them to tactfully have a discreet word with her about Bobby's behaviour without mentioning any names

TBH I wouldn't pussyfoot around - name the child, call out the behaviour, explain you're leaving the group will be leaving the group (if that is in fact the case), and indicate the consequences of badly behaved child remaining in group will be other parents continuing to leave the group

OP for me any hurtful behaviour physically to other kids from any child warrants an intervention from the parent, whether Sen or not. The intervention might be different in sen but I certainly would not want it ignored.

It’s different if the child is not hurting anyone. If they are screaming etc it is actually quite hard to get a kid to stop and would for me warrant trying to calm and distract, and some meltdowns are best left alone to run out of steam. So that might be quite distracting and possibly annoying for others but is part of tolerating others with less emotional regulation.

longlongsummer I couldn't agree more with your last, few posts. I feel you too.

OP no need to get so defensive, we agree with the fact that the mother ( and by association) the child has behaved inappropriately and poorly and no child should be hurt or scared by his violence. What I am saying is that I didn't like your ' he can speak and intetact' so therefore doesn't seem to have SEN. That is not a way to assume there's no SEN as a few of us have pointed out. It's a side issue but one,I thought, worth pointing out.

1 to 5 is too big an age range IMO for playgroup (ok for a library event where they are all seated on chairs). Perhaps they should do one for ages 0 to 2 and another for 3 to 5 years.