To be astonished that wales voted to leave the EU

[ExecutiveFiat]

it’s one of the poorest regions in Europe.- not just in the Uk. It has received millions in investment, it will be fucked (like the NE and Cornwall) after brexit.
Just had a weekend in Cardiff, where I witnessed Brexit party supporters intimidating a polish couple on the street. I won’t be going again in a hurry. !! I know it was one incident, but i’m Shocked and dismayed 😨.

Also suited mentioned the EU residents in Wales were housed by the council. It was always implied that EU residents were not entitled to benefits and housing?

I honestly don't understand how people working for cash in hand in construction for example would not drive down wages?

Cardiff actually voted 60% to remain.

I’m interested to know how many leavers acknowledge austerity as the root cause of a lot of the deprivation and hardship in many communities.

If your local services can’t support the local population is it the fault of the foreign folks or of the government forcing austerity driven cuts?

Austerity is definitely a factor.

I don’t think many people, leave or remain, would say it is the fault of the ‘foreign folks’

Put simply, low skilled people are always most at risk when it comes to wages being driven down and working conditions worsening. That isn’t the fault of anybody, it’s simply to do with surplus amounts of labour.

To be honest, and I have always thought this regardless of my feelings re the EU, the current system it is actually more racist than a system which values people on skills rather than nationality. In other words, why shouldn’t an Indian software manager have the same chance as working here as someone from Italy?

But I digress. I do think austerity has had a factor, surge. But the idea that staying in the EU is the cure for this is not correct.

I agree. I think it's generally having too many unskilled people coming to the UK not necessarily from the EU in a short space of time.

We are exporting lots of unproductive old people who need expensive healthcare and are receiving young healthy net contributors. In saying that, we do also export and import skilled workers. In my industry many people move around Europe and particularly the growth of Eastern Europe has created lots of business

Not too sure about the "unproductive" thing.....and don't pensioners pay for healthcare anyway, either through EHIC card or insurance?

HOW MANY BRITS IN EUROPE ARE PENSIONERS?
Of the 1.24 million Brits in Europe, British in Europe estimate that around 200 – 250,000 are retired. So no more than 20%. The rest being of working age. There is a common misconception that the majority of Brits in Europe are retired. That’s simply not the case. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) pays out 490,869 British pensions a year according to the latest Sept 2016 from Stat-Xplore operated by the DWP. It’s important to remember that a considerable number of these pensions will be received by non-British EU nationals who have gained a British pension by working in the UK and since left for retirement. Therefore that 490,869 figure is significantly reduced. According to Eurostat data from 2011, 79% of British pensions sent to Ireland are given to Irish citizens whereas 89% of British pensions sent to Spain are given to British citizens. Evidently the numbers of Brits at pension age in different countries varies considerably.

britishineurope.org

Shades, i’ll tell my dentist. She’s from the Czech Republic😀

I did say unskilled

Yes I know you did. I’m disputing the unskilled bit. Most immigrants are skilled and contribute more to the system than they take out😀

Our surgery had a dentist short for near enough to nine months. From three down to two. Apparently there is a shortage as many are going in to private practice.
All of our family routine appointments were put back to twelve months rather than the usual six,
Thank gid for immigration. The UK would be fucked without it!

Maybe they do. That doesn’t mean that them being here is ultimately beneficial to everybody

In all games, there are winners and losers. If wales are ‘losing’ from being in the EU, they have every right to vote to leave it.

Ihonestly don't understand how people working for cash in hand in construction for example would not drive down wages?

Do you mean British employers breaking the law and British authorities not enforcing it has a negative effect on the economy?

it seems to me that your recent visit to Wales has given you a wonderful new exciting opportunity to call Leave voters thick, stupid and racist.
I expect your next target will be all the other areas that voted Leave, you'll be quite busy.
I agree with the previous poster who said, when you've been ignored for decades and you're asked a question by the Government that appears to not know that you exist, don't be surprised when you don't get the answer you want.
As to blaming the EU for all things wrong, when you see huge sums of money are being spent on useless projects that are neither needed or wanted.
Then when a company wants to use local businesses i.e.a Steelworks and it's not allowed to under EU law. All tenders must be put out to all EU companies and the business must take the lowest tender.
It's no fucking wonder that all those unemployed thick racist Twats voted to leave.

"Not too sure about the "unproductive" thing"

If you're retired, you're unproductive economically.

".and don't pensioners pay for healthcare anyway, either through EHIC card or insurance?"

The EHIC card is free and is meant for emergency treatment only, at least for working age people. I think pensioners are able to access routine health treatment in other EU countries without necessarily paying for private health insurance.

Quick google about UK citizens living in Spain gave me "Healthcare is free for pensioners (over 65) "

"For those saying "the EU benefits the middleclasses" I'd point out that they benefit many farmers too, esp those farming on the marginal land on a small- medium scale."

Farmers are middle class unless they are tenant farmers or farm hands working for someone else.
I know what you mean though. Some sheep farmers in Wales are struggling and Brexit will only make this much worse. This is a serious problem, not only for the farmers themselves but for the rural communities in which they live and for the survival of the Welsh language.

" there has been a very large increase in the UK population, in a relatively short period of time. Poorer areas will feel it far more than richer ones"

No, they don't because Eastern European immigrants don't move to the poorer areas. They go to places with jobs, not places like Ebbw Vale in Blaenau Gwent, which had the highest leave vote in Wales.
The issue is the FEAR of immigrants stoked by Farage et al.

Places that actually have lots of immigrants like London and other big cities tended to vote Remain.

"I think for me the thing that’s Coming across from this thread is that areas which are economically poor and disadvantaged are angry and looking for something and someone to blame. The EU is a convenient scapegoat. Their anger is sadly misdirected..."

Yes, this is the left behind explanation that's been touted so much. It explains the leave vote in places like the valleys to a certain extent. However, if you read about Danny Dorling's work he does show another side to the debate i.e. that well-off people voted more for Remain than poorer people (across the UK) so the left-behinds are only one part of the story.

From Danny Dorling's blog www.dannydorling.org/?p=7164
"Most Leave voters were (and still are) social class A, B or C1. "

Originally from NE Wales and lots of friends/family still living there. It is a poor area with limited opportunity and it has suffered with austerity and lots of immigration from eastern European country which will have had a knock on effect for jobs. It feels like there no hope there and a sense of ' it can't get any worse than it is now.'

I have friends who are university educated, have left the area but still seem to think wales is protected from the effects of Brexit. They seem to think the Welsh assembly will protect them and fail to see how the Welsh assembly is interconnected with the government and the whole of the UK will suffer.

I can only speak for my friends and family but I've been shocked how educated people seem to have missed the bigger picture.

"It is a poor area"

Where in NE Wales are you from? Flintshire, for example, is one of the wealthiest counties in Wales.

Like rest of UK, the highest Leave voting areas in Wales tended to have the lowest immigrant population.

Am I reading that map right? Cardiff bucked the trend, has low immigration AND voted Remain. it looks like strong Leave results came from areas that bordered high immigrant areas. Like they were afraid of the foreigners invading their place.

My current dentist is Polish. The one before her may have been Asian-born.

...harder to correlate the Welsh 2016 vote with wages.

I think, from reading all these threads about Brexit and leavers or remainders is this outstanding fact

MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE EU GAVE THEIR AREA

And I mean, financially.

The earlier linked to article indicates the opposite actually ssd