To be astonished that wales voted to leave the EU

[ExecutiveFiat]

it’s one of the poorest regions in Europe.- not just in the Uk. It has received millions in investment, it will be fucked (like the NE and Cornwall) after brexit.
Just had a weekend in Cardiff, where I witnessed Brexit party supporters intimidating a polish couple on the street. I won’t be going again in a hurry. !! I know it was one incident, but i’m Shocked and dismayed 😨.

Where did the money go? Directly after the ref result shell shocked bbc reporters asking why why, why! To folks up in Newcastle area... But look.. How could you vote leave when the eu gave you that brand new center of culture.

Cue disgusted face.

You mean they take our money, and what doesn't get lost in vice rings, back handers and corruption, they give our money back to us, with an eu stamp on it to build shit like that... (the shiny culture center) that we can't afford to visit and have no inclination too...

Sounded fair enough to me!

How much propaganda has been pumped out to possibly convince anyone that we rely on the eu, giving us our money back to support poor areas.

And of course many Poor areas which like Birkenhead have been flooded with extremely poor people from over eu countries!

Like Frank field said... Please vote leave to help the poor of the UK.

Here's me.

To true but they choose not to put themselves in someone else's shoes because they feel their needs and wants are greater.

Frank Field? One of the architects of cuts to support for the disabled?

That Frank Field?

How interesting 30 % in one class but as some posters remind us again and again, there is no immigration in these areas.

I wonder when the penny will drop that there is and was no systematic counting in or out of eu population.

I read a good comment, can't remember where, after the referendum result was known.
"If you ignore people for years, then ask them a question, don't be surprised if you don't get the answer you want."

For a far few people, the Ref was the chance to give a perceived almighty f* you to the establishment, who by and large were for Remain.

Upatthesky no I am not but the reason the EU migrants came to the valleys was the number of vacancies in the area. I do not know why the vacancies couldn't be filled with the local population.

For those saying "the EU benefits the middleclasses" I'd point out that they benefit many farmers too, esp those farming on the marginal land on a small- medium scale. Wales is full of such farmers who are now getting mighty nervous about their futures. I'm not sure, as a country, it's going to find Brexit half as much fun as it though it would be. Ditto Cornwall (voted leave then a week later had MPs galloping to Westminster to ensure that EU grants would be replaced by grants from central government ).

Perkingfaintly

I agree with you broadly, but I'm not sure about the "deliberate" underfunding by somebody/thing, in the sense that it's a plan. As far as workers are concerned, I think that we have been involved in a race to the bottom for sometime. Just too many low-wage jobs, and nowhere near enough tax being collected to fund the population's needs. There was a thread a few days ago, - I think it was something like 1 in 5 workers on or below the min wage? - (sorry if that's a TAAT!)

"There were 54 million adults in the UK in 2014/15, but just 31 million - or 56 per cent - of those paid income tax, according to analysis by think tank the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS)"

The IFS figures include people whose earnings are too low for tax, the unemployed, and retired. That's a lot of people.

As regards the scapecoating of new arrivals, it's really not pleasant, but also not hard to understand. There's been no point in history when having an ever increasing supply of cheap labour has benefited anyone other than the bosses. Wages will always go down/stagnate if there are lots of people after a few jobs. Thinking particularly of the Valleys, I remember my history lessons covering the Potato Famine in Ireland. A truely awful time - lots of people left, with many coming to Wales to work in the mines. Did the owners welcome them, pay good wages? Did they bollocks. It drove wages down for everyone, and even got to the point where some mine owners were paying their workers with tokens, which could only be exchanged for food in the shops which the mine owners ran. It was probably the nearest to slavery that the UK got.

Sorry for the digression, but I really don't think the overall attitude of many employees has really changed. It's much more civilised now, but it still comes down to "What's the least I can pay".

SSD, Scotland knows where it’s at. i’m Irish. We don’t do servile either.😀

One of the positives of Brexit ( if you can call it that) is that Scotland will almost certainly vote for independence at the next referendum, and there will be a unity poll in Ireland in the next five years!

Yeah, I'm don't think there was a thought-out plan with a specific outcome in mind.

But I've heard quite a few times from (supposedly) Tory voters/pundits:
"They don't vote for us there, so why would we fund that area?"
and
"It's bad to have public sector jobs, because statistically public sector workers vote Labour/not-Tory."
and the much simpler
"It's not benefiting me; why should I pay taxes that help other people?"

That kind of thinking => knowingly underfunding areas because Don't Care => vote for change/protest/anti-scapegoat.

There could be numerous reasons for that, tiny

I don’t like this attitude of lazy brits compared to hard working EEs. I never have.

Remain areas correlate highly with high levels of an educated young population (in Scotland too although all constituencies there voted remain). I would hazard that Wales overall is not attracting a lot of young graduates to migrate there. But that’s a guess - I have no idea why an area which is so heavily dependent on EU subsidies would do that.

Also there is no proof that intra EU immigration lowered wages at all in the UK. Overall EU migrants have contributed to the economy.

But the old racist trope that the immigrants stole their job is attractive to many idiotic types.

Will no doubt get a kicking for this but ... Surely a massive reason for many to vote Leave, no matter where they live, has been Freedom of Movement. Nice for middle class travellers and businesses, professionals wanting to work in other countries..., great, but when there is such huge disparity between the EU countries, the traffic has been pretty much one way. That is, unskilled 'workers' from poorer countries heading for richer ones, especially those where healthcare, housing and benefits are easily available. That was inevitable and how could it fail to cause ill feeling in the areas where those people are housed? As far as I understand the government could have put some restrictions on this but did not. I don't understand why Cameron at least did not address this issue before offering the referendum.

As my DH is an employer of highly qualified engineers, I have to tell you it’s not a race to the bottom regarding wages. Firms like his need well qualified, well motivated and good people who want to work for them. They pay well but getting the right people from the UK pool of talent has proved challenging.

Companies who pay low wages all round might need to keep the wage bill in check depending on what profits they make. Many small employers do struggle to keep going.

It all depends whether people want jobs. My DH has had many people from abroad working for him down the years. Everyone has benefitted. The company, other employees and clients. The company does well and has profit share. There is not s race to the bottom and companies like DHs do want to stay in the EU because their employees from other countries have been great. There are not enough uk ones to go round!

I don’t see why you’d get a kicking, it’s correct.

True Zsa. I think Wales also has the poorest outcomes educationally in the whole of the UK!

Ah the usual racists tropes about immigration driving down wages. You dont have to scratch the surface very far..

the traffic has been pretty much one way

Actually the UK's been pretty good at exporting retired people to eg Spain. Where they then need health care, being older.

But most people don't seem to remember emigrants in the same breathe as they're talking about immigrants – or indeed ever! Even when their auntie Maureen has retired there!

Yup the nasty furinners are either all on benefits or stealing their jobs.😀

It’s pretty easy to see that isn’t a fair distribution though perking, an exchange of elderly retired people leaving the UK with healthy workers entering the UK.

Colleagues on an EU funded project voted to leave. It beggars belief.

My part of Wales has benefitted hugely from EU funding. No manufacturing, no industry. Pretty much zero immigration (unless you count English OAPs). Voted heavily to leave. It makes as much sense as anywhere else in the country IMO.

Exactly upatthesky - we are exporting lots of unproductive old people who need expensive healthcare and are receiving young healthy net contributors. In saying that, we do also export and import skilled workers. In my industry many people move around Europe and particularly the growth of Eastern Europe has created lots of business.

OP You're "astonished" that Wales voted leave, yet when you've had responses from Welsh people (or people living in Wales) you've dismissed their concerns as 'scapegoating' or 'racism'. THIS is part of the problem, a lot of people in Wales have never felt that we've been listened to or had our concerns addressed - we're often merely dismissed, that's if we're even acknowledged at all.

In the run up to the referendum leave voters felt the same, that any concerns they had were not heard, they were spoken to like shit by a lot of remainers and told they were thick and racist. Funnily enough remainers never did convince many leavers to change their mind that way! They were (and still are) mocked and jeered at, and threads like these are pathetic because as usual someone starts a thread that on the surface appears to want to understand, wants to learn why people could possibily leave ... yet when they're given reasons they simply dismiss them.