To be astonished that wales voted to leave the EU

[ExecutiveFiat]

it’s one of the poorest regions in Europe.- not just in the Uk. It has received millions in investment, it will be fucked (like the NE and Cornwall) after brexit.
Just had a weekend in Cardiff, where I witnessed Brexit party supporters intimidating a polish couple on the street. I won’t be going again in a hurry. !! I know it was one incident, but i’m Shocked and dismayed 😨.

We’ve been in the EU for decades and large parts of Wales are suffering, so people vote for change. They may not agree on what those changes should be, CAP or less immigration or whatever but they are desperate for something to change.
It isn’t so surprising really.

upatthesky

Suited actually linked to an extremely informative article which didn’t ask people to take one side or the other, it just explained people’s thought processes.

Thank you, and as this thread shows, some people really can't get their heads round the idea that the EU is not seen as a postive thing by everyone. Looking at the reasons why this is would be a start, rather than playing the "racist" card at anyone who has reservations about FOM etc.

Yes Leigh. Cornwall is another place that’s going to suffer badly.!

Op, when you look at ‘poor’ as a community, that may be true.

Take the community out of it and apply it to individuals.

They don’t want clocks, roads, fountains, leisure centres, balls (wtf?) or statues.

They want jobs, and to be able to live comfortably from the earnings from these jobs.

I think the newspaper article summed it up when it quoted one man saying ‘the EU hasn’t spent money (here) so much as wasted money here.’

Here we go

There is NOTHING racist about @Suiteds post AT ALL

Do you live in areas where immigrants are mainly UNEMPLOYED and fighting, and pissing and drinking on your street ?!

And to be honest, as much as I’d love to turn the clock back and go to 2016, even I am a bit bemused at the logic to spend money on balls.

09upatthesky, bollocks.
If being in the EU is beneficial tp the middle classes, why did Scotland overwhelmingly vote to remain?
I despair at some of the crap I read on here.

I think this thread is disgusting.
The way some posters are talking about the people of Wales is shocking.
These remainers really are showing themselves up for what they really are.

I am off .

Another Brexit Bashing thread thinly disguised by the opening post of the OP .

It isn’t bollocks, ssd, although obviously you are free to disagree.

Nonetheless, the net beneficiaries from being in the EU are overwhelmingly the middle classes.

It benefits them in many ways, some obvious and some not so obvious.

Scotland does indeed have support for the EU that is higher than in England. It would be misleading to claim that the only people who support the EU are the middle classes. Nonetheless there are distinct trends and some of these are linked to location (London, scotland) some are socioeconomic and some straddle both.

That is not, ah, ‘bollocks’

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research

Apparently it’s because of the English

Yes it is. And that's the problem, and the reason so many voted to leave, when it won't be in their best interests.. Eg. Wales, as the op said.
The working classes who have been utterly shafted by tory austerity voted to leave in their masses as they believed voting to remain was for the middle classes who would benefit from it. Same as why trump got in, the working man believed a right wing millionaire was on their side.

Thankfully Scotland seen through the lies and had more sense, but our votes count for fuck all anyway.

It’s pretty easy to see how the sort of attitude largely contributed to the problem though, ssd

People generally vote for what they perceive to be their best interests. If their best interest is not a ball or a clock, who are you or I to tell them they are wrong?

There is a difference between bestowing charity on others and working to ensure dignity and security for others. The clock and balls (!) really isn’t the right tone for a left wing Labour movement.

I agree WhentheRabbitsWentWild* - HQ really need to do something about all these brexit bashing threads. Some of the posts are so insulting they wouldn’t be allowed in any other situation.

HQ won’t

From the link

‘Danny Dorling, a professor of geography at Oxford, found that the result could in part be attributed to the influence of English voters.

“If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”’

Carole Cadwalladr, who's from South Wales, went back there immediately after the referendum to investigate exactly that question.

Her talk on it is about 15 mins long, but the TL;DR this is how she found out about Facebook micro-targeting.

She found people in Ebbw Vale (which has one of the lowest rates of immigration in the UK) who were "fed up with the immigrants and refugees", and had been told that the entire population of Turkey would be immigrating to the UK when Turkey joined the EU – which Turkey isn't likely ever to be allowed to do.

Video: www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy

Transcript: www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy/transcript

So misinformation and scapegoating was piled on top of the genuine issues and voters' personal experiences.

I’m an English person living in north wales, and our household comprises of two adults that work in the tourism industry - one of whom set up their business using grants from the EU, years ago. I benefited from maternity leave when I was a teacher, I attended a university that had exchange programmes as part of the course. Our schools here have free milk as part of an EU scheme. I voted remain, as did my partner and all my friends. Westminster doesn’t give a fuck about wales and we will certainly suffer as a result of leaving the EU.

This may have been mentioned in one of the linked articles. The government often blamed the EU for things like not being able to help places like Port Talbot (and Redcar) when the steelworks were in trouble. People heard that and took it at face value. It didn't matter that whether or not it was true, Westminster wasn't going to do anything. The EU was the fall guy.

Have you watched Carole Cadwalladr’s Ted talk? It’s interestung. Link here. Hope it works. If not just google.

I suspect it is a lot of reasons as mentioned above.

I also watched an interesting segment on Twitter about Sunderland. Not sure if anyone follows a guy called Femi. He is an ardent Remainer and posts a lot. Anyway he went to Sunderland and was driven around by a local guy trying to explain why so many voted leave there. They had the mines. Then they closed. So they got manufacturing jobs - Nissan etc. But as he pointed out they are low skilled and low paid jobs for the majority. Even if you got to uni there are not many jobs in the area for graduates. Most jobs in the area are low paid and low skilled. It’s hard to ‘regenerate’ areas when there is little employment. And therefore little hope. They felt they had nothing to lose by voting leave really.

Austerity was a huge reason for a lot of people in certain areas voting leave. And there needs to be a massive investigation into why people voted leave and concerns need to be addressed. But under Tories that won’t happen. David Cameron still thinks they were right to make the cuts they did. Doesn’t seem to get that those cuts led directly to some people voting leave. Not all. But enough.

Cross posted PerkingFaintly.

dirtyrottenscoundrel

I’m a ‘people of Wales.’ And I agree with the posts in question

The UK is a net contributor to the EU budget, which means it contributes more to the EU budget than it receives back from it.
In 2017, the UK was the second largest contributor with €7.43bn (£6.55bn), just behind Germany.

On the other end, Poland was the biggest net recipient of the EU budget (getting more back than it contributed in the first place), followed by Greece, Romania, Hungary and Portugal.

Many people voted Leave because they think that many areas of the UK are deprived and that hard-working British taxpayers would be better off funding infrastructure projects and the like in this country.

If you lived a deprived area that has been deprived whilst in the EU, you are going to try and grasp at a change, after all if you are rock bottom you will pretty much think we'll it can't get any worse. This isn't just true in Wales it's true over lots of the UK.

A lot of remain supporters can't seem to put their selves in some else shoes.

People are naive to think that EU money filters down to the poor it doesn't, a lot are vanity projects.