To use a chokechain?

[AsahiGo]

Looking for some advice and brutal honesty, hence posting in this section haha. Also sorry for the long post.

We've had our gorgeous labsky for two months, he's a second-hand dog, and aside from being an obnoxious teenager at times, he's generally good. However, on walks he is a nightmare.

He drags, and it's BAD. To add context, my husband and I are both powerlifters, and we both struggle with him! We've tried a harness (swiftly found it gives him more power to drag through his shoulders - I swear he thanked us for it!), We've tried a halti. With the halti, it did hinder his pulling BUT, he learnt that if he walks slightly side-ways, he can still do whatever he wants. And then he started walking on his hind legs whilst trying to get the halti off with his front paws.

The other issue we have is that he is fixated on cars. He lunges at anything that moves, and yesterday he knocked my daughter into the road in front of a 4x4 (SHE IS FINE! luckily). He was on a halti and another lead attached to his collar as a backup. He still managed to get off the curb.

At the moment, I'm walking him at 4am (less traffic!) and I'm wrapping the lead around my waist and using my body weight against him. It's the only thing I can think of doing at the moment. Treats don't work - he flat out refuses them on walks, in fact, he completely ignores me.

I loathe choke chains. But I feel like I'm running out of options, and due to his fixation on chasing vehicles, it's only a matter of time before an accident happens. We have seen a couple of trainers, and they didn't know what to do with him. The last guy screamed 'FUCKING HELL!' as he was yanked across his paddock.

Obviously I need to walk this dog, but I don't know how to do it safely anymore. AIBU to try a choke chain?

I used a choke chain on a difficult dog maybe 25 or more years ago and they do work if you use them right. As soon as the dog looks as if he's about to take off you give a short sharpe jerk and say "heel". You can't use them if the dog continues to pull with them on. Keep treats in your pocket and when he 'heels' give him one. I used cheese.

I now have a breed of dogs that never pull.

10 years ago, pack/dominance theory was "the thing" and everyone followed it - including Victoria Stilwell to some extent.

However we've moved on and can now understand that dominance theory is a load of cobblers. It was based on wolf packs and the main problem with that is dogs are dogs, not wolves. They're related, yes, but they're not the same species and they don't behave in the same way.

If you go to Victoria's channel on Youtube, she's actually done some updated episodes of her show It's Me or the Dog and explains how some of the methods she used all those years ago are wrong, and how she would do things differently today.

I don't believe good owners use any kind of force to train their dog. Yes, poor behaviour can be exceptionally frustrating but that's not an excuse to use things like choke chains on a dog. We've moved on.

@AsahiGo - just a message to say good luck with your dog. You'll get there!

This is my husky / collie / greyhound / malamute cross. She's 27kg these days and pure muscle.... And fluff. Dear god the fur.

Anyway, you said you're trying to find a high value treat - for us it was freeze dried chicken. She was underweight and had issues around food when she arrived aged 9mths, so refused almost all treats, until we found those about 6 months later. They were from Pets At Home of all places.

You need to order a canny collar today.
We have a large labrador who can pull you right off your feet, we've tried every harness and lead, took her to training classes, everyone told us she was too strong for us , we eventually found a good dog trainer who recommended the canny collar, it works like a dream, we can even take it off and use as a normal collar once she has had a good run around off lead in the morning, we practised recall first using a harness and long line with the trainer, if you can afford a good trainer even for a few months will make such a difference, but be careful there's a lot of bad dog trainers out there, we saw one who charged £80 a session and straight away put a metal prong collar on our dog and said you have to show them your the boss, we threw him out, good luck with it

Bullshit @percheron67. You use a choke chain because your dog doesn’t want to wear a “silly looking” harness? Your dog doesn’t care if you dress it in a pink tutu and fairy wings, it’s a dog. Don’t anthropomorphise it to justify cruelty.

We have a great pyr/husky mix. He is about 80lb and is not great on walks. We use thick black hatnesses on both the dogs that make them feel secure and like they have a job to do. Y9u can even load water bottles or something on the sides as then the dog feels like it is doing something for the pack and behaves better. We use extending leashes attached to the harness. We tried super short leashes and bungee etc, but have found our dogs walk better when they have about 10 metres to play with. We also found taking them to the dog park was better than walks as after an hour there they would be more placid when walking for the next few days. We found the husky did pretty well at behaving for treats (doesn't work at all on the pyr. She won't consider eating when in a walk as she is too nervous). So we taught heel by calling him back from the extended leash to get a piece of sausage. He stsrted listening to us more on walks with the treats.

He can easily pull us over if he really tries, so we don't let the kids walk him because if he sees a cat he might just get on his hind legs and lunge till he has pulled us where he wants to be. But for the most part he is staying when told to near roads and generally manageable. You just need to find consistency and a method that works for him

@sillysmiles thank you!

@TwattingDog she's gorgeous! I'm wondering if food-related 'stuff' is a common thing amongst huskies? Mine was very weird about food (previous family said they actually had concerns), you could see the vertebrate. He's much better with food now, but haven't nailed the thing he'll go crazy for. I thought it might be chicken but that hasn't worked thus far

My collie was never interested in treats until we tried liver cake www.hearingdogs.org.uk/training-our-puppies/dog-treat-recipes/liver-cake/

Ooh yes liver cake goes down like sweeties!

thanks for that recipe link

My friend had a husky with similar problems and she had this fabric harness that sort of went round his muzzle (Apologies I’m not explaining this very well!) and when he tugged it it sort of pulled on that are. It didn’t hurt but I can imagine it felt quite uncomfortable. I have no idea what it was called, but she said it helped a lot.

Ooh, Victoria Stillwell is dodgy?! I always thought she was great!

She promotes positive reinforcement, but some of her methods are at best 'grey'. She's not bad, I just find her to be not as 'positive' as she first appears to be.

…

Coming from the woman who considered a choke collar.

What techniques do you think she uses that aren't positive?

Bare in the mind that It's Me or the Dog was filmed over 10 years ago and techniques have changed a lot since then, and that Victoria herself has admitted she would do things differently now.

I know, I've watched some of the ones on youtube like Diesel the husky. I remember her using a lot of sound aversion - weren't there a fridge-raider where she hooked up an alarm? Depending on who you ask, it's negative or positive. The only thing I didn't really like about her show, is she used to be mad for getting dogs balls lopped off, which is fair enough for health reasons, but not for what she said at the time - to 'calm them down' behaviour wise.
but like you said, IMOTD was a long time ago, she's changed too. I watch her US show. You can learn something from anyone.

@AsahiGo, I used a Bungee lead, it transformed walks for me. I used it in conjunction with a Perfect Fit Harness and once I learnt how much space to leave to allow for the stretch it worked like a charm.

I was lucky enough to do some training with Sally Hopkins, and she has some great articles on-line about why your dog pulls. Once I understood that a bit better I could work out how to manage it better.
www.dog-games.co.uk/about-us/our-team/sally-hopkins/

Good luck with whatever method you choose. 🙂

Figure of eight sliplead. The dog cannot physically pull using this.

Mine can, without any difficulty!

Gingersausage. No need for the foul language!! That speaks volumes. The check I used is a fine, lightweight one designed especially to check and not choke.. No anthropomorphism here. She was a well behave soul who was never in danger of taking herself and/or me into the road. The chain lay flat on her neck (because she walked to heel - can you grasp that?) and therefore, was not a danger to herself and other pavement users. A happy and kind GSD. You really ought not to pontificate on matters about which you know nothing.

I would never, under any circumstances, use a thick chain on any dog. They do not slide easily and would be most uncomfortable Horrid things.

I think it was on the Zak George video I shared, if not it was on the other one with a similar title - go to his channel and search chasing. He shows how you can exercise the dog in a small area like the garden to get excess energy out while trying to train. Obviously it's not ideal but much better than not being able to exercise them at all.

She doesn't rate sound aversion anymore - but 10 years ago she was using the techniques that everyone else used. The fact that she has spoken out and admitted she did some things wrong says a lot, I think.

Castration certainly calmed our male dog down - noticeably so, in fact. Of course it's anecdotal and doesn't work for all dogs, but it can be argued that a reduction in testosterone leads to a dog who is less distracted and therefore more likely to listen to it's owner.

Lots of vets/experts are split on the benefits of castration. Our trainer told us not to bother unless it was necessary for health reasons, whereas I never saw the point in keeping a dog "whole" unless you're going to breed, which I never intended to do. At the end of the day it's personal preference. Castration isn't necessarily wrong.

Our little rescue was not keen on treats until we discovered dried sprats and OMG! It has changed all our lives! She goes boss eyed with excitement at the mere mention of them and now is coming when she is called, going out into the garden for a wee, ya know, basic stuff that a lot of dog owners take for granted! Also sold by Pets At Home (this sounds like an ad, but it is not, promise).

Choke chains don't work - my mother insisted I used one with our dog and he would walk on his back legs whilst gasping for breath, when she had him, she'd be constantly yanking on it as well.

So I switched to a soft lead (bought with the proceeds of my Saturday job) when she wasn't looking and would call him back for treats. He stopped pulling - and became trustworthy enough to let off lead for a sprint across the park,, stopping at the gates to have his soft lead clipped back on - not that I'd ever tell her that one.

You also look like an utter dick who is incapable of controlling your animal and wants everybody to think you're so very, very tough with the bastarding things.

www.cannyco.com

Why is the Canny Collar different to other head collars?

Firstly, the Canny Collar fastens behind the head rather than under the chin. The Canny Collar is a dog training collarThe immediate benefit of this is that there is no yanking your dog's head to one side or riding up into his eyes.

When you are positioned below an animal (such as a horse) it would make sense to lead it from under the chin. However, the horse rider will control the horse from behind the head which makes more sense if you are above the animal. This is why the Canny Collar is unique amongst dog training collars.

Secondly, the Canny Collar is a dog training collar rather than a dog restraining collar. It can be quickly and easily switched into a regular dog collar and lead by alternately flicking the slip line on and off your dog's nose. By doing this you can use the Canny Collar like a 'dog training lead' eventually training your dog to walk on a conventional flat collar.

Canny Collar vs Halti, Dogmatic & Gentle Leader

The main difference between the Canny Collar and other head collars such as the Halti, Dogmatic and Gentle Leader is the position to where the lead is fastened – the Canny Collar fastens behind the head rather than underneath the chin. By fastening behind the head, the potential for unintentional misuse is minimised as the Canny Collar will not pull your dog's head to one side.

Any dog control device is really only as good as the owner on the other end of the lead. Whilst most owners are responsible and caring individuals with their animal’s best interests at heart, some can, through frustration, become heavy handed, resulting in the dog’s head being yanked to one side and the nosepiece riding up into the eyes.

The Canny Collar, on the other hand, does not bring the dog’s head to one side, rather it lowers the head towards the floor. This means the full weight of the dog is harnessed in slowing the dog down, rather than putting pressure on the neck area with the head twisted to one side. Many organisations, including the RSPCA and Guide Dogs in the UK, have recognised this as kind, safe and effective and have adopted the Canny Collar as their training product of choice.

With regards to dog training, the Canny Collar is only promoted as a device to prevent dogs from pulling on lead and not to bring a dog’s head around to look at the owner. We do not promote it for example as a tool to combat aggression in dogs or for other areas of training.

Pulling on lead is the most common problem faced by dog owners and this is the area the Canny Collar is designed to focus on. However, we do have some anecdotal evidence to suggest it is also effective in controlling barking and lungeing/aggression on lead.