To use a chokechain?

[AsahiGo]

Looking for some advice and brutal honesty, hence posting in this section haha. Also sorry for the long post.

We've had our gorgeous labsky for two months, he's a second-hand dog, and aside from being an obnoxious teenager at times, he's generally good. However, on walks he is a nightmare.

He drags, and it's BAD. To add context, my husband and I are both powerlifters, and we both struggle with him! We've tried a harness (swiftly found it gives him more power to drag through his shoulders - I swear he thanked us for it!), We've tried a halti. With the halti, it did hinder his pulling BUT, he learnt that if he walks slightly side-ways, he can still do whatever he wants. And then he started walking on his hind legs whilst trying to get the halti off with his front paws.

The other issue we have is that he is fixated on cars. He lunges at anything that moves, and yesterday he knocked my daughter into the road in front of a 4x4 (SHE IS FINE! luckily). He was on a halti and another lead attached to his collar as a backup. He still managed to get off the curb.

At the moment, I'm walking him at 4am (less traffic!) and I'm wrapping the lead around my waist and using my body weight against him. It's the only thing I can think of doing at the moment. Treats don't work - he flat out refuses them on walks, in fact, he completely ignores me.

I loathe choke chains. But I feel like I'm running out of options, and due to his fixation on chasing vehicles, it's only a matter of time before an accident happens. We have seen a couple of trainers, and they didn't know what to do with him. The last guy screamed 'FUCKING HELL!' as he was yanked across his paddock.

Obviously I need to walk this dog, but I don't know how to do it safely anymore. AIBU to try a choke chain?

I would let him off the lead somewhere enclosed for a long run/play to burn off his energy. Then I would walk him and train him as I walk.

Dog on your left, left hand on the lead close to the dog, right hand looped through the end of the lead. I would take his favourite treat and every few steps I would stop/sit/wait/stand/turn around etc to keep his attention on you.

You can practice this first in a field/park if you're worried about cars until you get more practice.

Haven't read the full thread.

Train the dog.

I wouldn't recommend a harness on a big dog. Our choc lab is a powerful sod and was very difficult to walk. We took him to a training school where the very old school trainer helped us out and he's great now. We did have a harness for him before as we thought it would help but the trainer told us to take it off and use a Halti instead. It's worked wonders for our lad and he is a pleasure to take out now. BUT you need to work really hard to get to this point - there is no magic harness or lead and no quick fix to this. You need to put the time and effort in. And do not, under any circumstance, use a choke chain.

To all of you who disagree with me I ask: If you were a dog would you prefer to have something tied around your nose, wear a silly harness suitable tor sled dogs or walk on a loose lead by your owner's heel and not be at risk of running into the road under a car.

I'd rather train my dog (and myself) properly and not be cruel to my dog in the process, but there you go.

OP you still seem to be missing the point ... STOP asking about recommend products to stop your dog pulling. TRAIN him. That’s it!

I'd stick with the dogmatic halter. My bug jack Russell wears one because he's a proper escape artist and can get everything else off.

The key is to pick one thing and stick with it for a while.

If he went up on his back legs, I'd try to pull him off balance then reward him when all four feet are on the ground.

A treadmill at home can help apparently because it let's him run in a pretty safe way. You'd have to train that too but I'm sure there are videos on YouTube.

Also put electricians tape over the clip/buckle so he can't get it open.

thanks everyone

@Frazzledbutcalm thanks I know

You have chosen a breed that is bred to run for 20 miles a day through snow.....and you wonder why he doesn't want to walk quietly on a lead.

Look at the dog you have, really look, ...the answer is there. He must be horribly frustrated as every sinew is saying to run and exercise those powerful muscles, yet you are talking about cruelly (and as someone who has had large breed dogs all my life choke chains are cruel) restraining him...for being what he is.

Trying to be kind here but, most people are simply not able to take on a dog like this as they cannot give them what they need...it is not what you want but what HE NEEDS...to run hard and fast a couple of times a day....Then you can train him as he will be satisfied.

Example, l had a Weimaraner,years ago, people everywhere admired her, and said how much they wanted one ...until l explained l went out on an hour and a half bike ride with her OFF LEAD every morning, stopping to throw balls in bushes for her to retrieve.
Then did off lead 30 minute playtime in our garden at lunchtime, incorporating training, retrieve, recall etc. Then an hour walk in the woods off lead early evening......Every day of the year...Most people were visibly changing their minds about wanting a Weimaraner.
She was the most beautifully behaved dog, not because of my training skills but because she was doing what she was bred to do physically so was content. Training was a simple matter.
We now have a cocker spaniel, because although l desperately wanted another Weimaraner, l know l do not have the time or energy for that intense level of exercise...it is about the dog not about my wants.
Our cocker still gets a 30 minute long training lead walk with my son at 6am, an hour in the woods off lead with me walking mid morning, and a 45 minute evening walk.
Op unless you can find suitable large spaces to safely let your dog off twice a day to let off steam, play, and socialise with other dogs and are prepared to do this daily for the rest of his life then you should rehome him.
The things you describe are dangerous, NEVER wrap a lead around your waist.Please never use a choke chain.
Dogs are a massive responsibility and l think you have the wrong dog for your situation.

thanks for your reply. We're getting involved in canicross when he's the right age.

Although most dog behaviour can be fixed with training as opposed to tools, having the right equipment to prevent injury in the meantime is really important.

As an example - dogs that pull should be walked on a harness, not a collar, to avoid pressure on the neck. Once they've mastered loose-lead walking on a harness, you can then switch to a collar if that's what you prefer.

It's also true that some harnesses "help" with pulling more than others. Harnesses with chest attachments and head collars prevent a dog from pulling forward as the dog is automatically pulled around towards you when he/she tries to pull. However take the harness off, and often the pulling starts again - so it's not a cure, just something that can be used as a measure that will help you train the behaviour properly.

If a dog on a normal collar/lead combination is pulling to the extent that it's dangerous, than you have to take measures to stop that. However that doesn't mean using force/pain - you either walk the dog off-lead, practise somewhere with minimal distractions or use force-free tools to help you train your dog.

Good luck OP!

thanks.

Get on eBay and order a canny collar (wonderful). Its a bit like a Halti but a better design and it actually cannot be taken off by the dog. We used it on an 8 stone (18 month so still naughty puppyish) Newfoundland. My teenager could then walk him

@adaline I think you're one of the few who understand what I'm getting at. thanks for all your advice.

I have a Springer pup, she's not even 4 months yet and you wouldn't believe how powerful she is when she pulls. I got one of these www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-Strong-Dog-Lead-Reflective/dp/B07S1WCRXT/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=spring+lead&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1570016322&sr=8-11 and it's helped a lot but obviously that instinct is there to pull. It's like she can't help herself. I had her on a slip lead before and she was choking herself, going blood shot and couldn't breath! but she kept doing it. It was so scary I ended up carrying her. (obv can't do that with a big adult dog!)

She's starting puppy classes soon, very popular around here just waiting for a space. Main training classes start at 6 months though. Loads of youtube videos out there for tips.

@AsahiGo you're welcome - it's hard, so I sympathise! I have a puller (he's better than he was thought still not perfect) but he's only 17kg so I can hold him if he gets silly. It's very different with a larger, stronger dog who could have you off your feet in seconds!

A friend of mine has a 50kg dog - a Newfoundland/Sheepdog cross. He's amazing on the lead but it's taken her well over a year to get him where he is. She just uses the stop method. Every time he pulls, she stops dead and waits. And waits. And waits. It's taken her months of persistence but she's gotten there and his lead manners are impeccable now.

I don't have the same patience as her so mine still pulls, BUT (and this is the important part) I can hold onto him if he does. If her dog pulled her, he'd have her over in seconds - he weighs the same if not more as her!

Another experienced dog owner here who doubts that a choke chain would stop the pulling. When I've resorted to them in the past (like you it was out of desperation and trying to preserve my personal safety, not as a desire to punish) I've found that the dog just continues to pull despite the fact that it's choking him/her. So you end up with the same problem behaviour plus the dog is choking itself.

There isn't much you can do at this point except get a decent trainer in to try and correct the behaviour. It will be possible to train him to stop doing this but you will need a good enough trainer to get there. You'll probably also find that allowing him more intense exercise time will help. This is best achieved by letting him off the lead somewhere safe and allowing him to charge around like a total maniac for an hour or so.

Anything with husky in it a real handful to manage. Good luck!

@callmeadoctor - newfies are great. (at risk of being told off for asking for products and not training) I will look at a canny one. I think I've heard of them before actually? I just want something to use in the meantime to walk him on so I can exercise him. No point in trying to train him when hes bouncing off the walls with excitement needing to go out.

Try contacting the IMDT to see if there is an accredited trainer near you. At least that way the advice you get should be consistent - that is their aim.

www.imdt.uk.com/

But actUally OP I know that you are trying really hard, but Im wondering whether it would be kinder to consider re homing him to someone with bit more experience and time ( and able to get to decent free running facilities?)

Get a behaviourist in, we've had one for our rescue and its changed so many things. He had also never been walked or socialized until he came to us at 1 year old and was showing many similar behaviours to your dog.

Try a long line in the field to begin with, my lab instantly stopped pulling the second he had some free reign, turn in the opposite direction and shout THIS WAY to work on recall. When he starts to follow on the lead hire a dog training field and let him off there or in a secluded area to begin with. I sat down the first time I let him off, got him to sit with me then took his lead off and he stayed very close to begin with. Then I walked off, shouted this way and he followed because it was a command he knew. I walk my dog on a slip lead, not sure if its the same as a choker? Its fabric, it goes under his ears not round his throat. The trick is to always have his head at your hip, dont give a lot of leeway on a working walk. You want his brain focused on what's going on around you, then go into a field and have some fun. Our behaviourist broke things down so beautifully, and helped us to see where we were going wrong for him as owners. Alot of it comes down to the dog trying to be incharge of you. Particularly females, theres no alpha Male in a pack.

Search behaviourist plus area on google. Or put a fb post up, that's how we found ours.

Yep it would. youre all right. I'll rehome him.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canny-Collar-Black-Size-1/173731708726?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60272%26meid%3D397b18ed2990468da982f4b6cb2c0f96%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D11%26sd%3D303287941730%26itm%3D173731708726%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Put a link above to canny collars, amazing things and definitely worth a try.

I do think choke chains are cruel but beyond that, you could end up making the situation worse if whenever he sees a car he feels a horrible painful choking sensation. He could end up associating cars with that pain and make his behaviour worse (esp if hes more of a 'fighter' than 'flighter' at times of stress or pressure). Same goes for when walking with you, if he pulls and you are saying "slow down" and he gets that painful feeling, you could end up making that worse too.

If you are anywhere near Shropshire there is a companh called GB Dog Training who is absolutely excellent and only charges £20 an hour- no fee if you're not happy! He helped massively with our dog and I've seen him work with a lot of big powerful dogs too.

Good luck OP and well done for giving him a new home!