To use a chokechain?

[AsahiGo]

Looking for some advice and brutal honesty, hence posting in this section haha. Also sorry for the long post.

We've had our gorgeous labsky for two months, he's a second-hand dog, and aside from being an obnoxious teenager at times, he's generally good. However, on walks he is a nightmare.

He drags, and it's BAD. To add context, my husband and I are both powerlifters, and we both struggle with him! We've tried a harness (swiftly found it gives him more power to drag through his shoulders - I swear he thanked us for it!), We've tried a halti. With the halti, it did hinder his pulling BUT, he learnt that if he walks slightly side-ways, he can still do whatever he wants. And then he started walking on his hind legs whilst trying to get the halti off with his front paws.

The other issue we have is that he is fixated on cars. He lunges at anything that moves, and yesterday he knocked my daughter into the road in front of a 4x4 (SHE IS FINE! luckily). He was on a halti and another lead attached to his collar as a backup. He still managed to get off the curb.

At the moment, I'm walking him at 4am (less traffic!) and I'm wrapping the lead around my waist and using my body weight against him. It's the only thing I can think of doing at the moment. Treats don't work - he flat out refuses them on walks, in fact, he completely ignores me.

I loathe choke chains. But I feel like I'm running out of options, and due to his fixation on chasing vehicles, it's only a matter of time before an accident happens. We have seen a couple of trainers, and they didn't know what to do with him. The last guy screamed 'FUCKING HELL!' as he was yanked across his paddock.

Obviously I need to walk this dog, but I don't know how to do it safely anymore. AIBU to try a choke chain?

YABVU.
He needs a good trainer and a big field. If he can't walk by traffic, take him to a park.

Look at local enclosed dog walking parks - some areas do have them. You can then let him off for a run and train his recall.

Use a harness, worked wonders on my collie (who can pull an adult over)

Who the fuck crossed a husky with a labrador in the first place? Jesus christ.

OP, I think you need professional help. And that dog is going to be hard work forever. It's not the sort of dog I would chose for a family dog for a million reasons. He's going to need keeping busy, keep training constantly and a fuckton of exercise and mental stimulation.

Can you offer him that? Because it's ok to say you can't because if it goes wrong it could be a disaster. Most likely for the dog but also for your family and other people.

An akita was loose in the village where I keep our ponies over the weekend. Probably a bored, untrained dog who was owned by a family who have no clue how to look after a highly intelligent, big dog with a high prey drive. It got into our fields and ripped one of our pet sheep to bits.

Your dog shouldn't be walked in public until you can control it. You need professional help ASAP and a secure place to walk him.

I'd say you need to work on your dogs attention on you, so do the watch me thing with a treat held near your eyes and as soon as he looks at you, give the treat.

Then try loose lead training where you stop and turn and walk the other way as soon as the dog pulls. Along with traffic desensitisation.

We get out of the house just after 4am back at around 5.30-ish.
He then goes out again at lunchtime for around 30 minutes, and then a shorter one in the evening, mainly stretching his legs. We have a horse lunge lead so he can have more freedom. We also do a lot of 'brain-training' with him; 'sprinkles', and other scent work, and just general training/'tricks'. dh is in the process of getting a harness that we can attach something to for him to drag around a field (if we can find a secure one).

I've had a lot of conflicting advice on him previously, so I feel overwhelmed by it at times. Some people have said I exercise him to much, and he's over-stimulated, some say it's not enough, it feels very trial and error. I just want him to be happy and healthy (and I really don't want whiplash again!).

The second 'fucking hell' trainer was the most recommended trainer/behaviourist where we live >.

You could also try a harness that has a ring on the chest instead of the back.

You have my sympathies, my puller wasn’t a particularly big dog, but I did think I would end up with arms like a gibbon at one point!

I had some success with a dogmatic and a double ended lead, one end clipped to the head collar and the other to a standard harness, that was enough to keep him off balance and stopped the worst of the constant pulling.

For lunging I got an elastic lead, clipped to a harness. When he pulled I just planted my feet and the lead pinged him back to me. It sounds comical, but it absolutely worked. He learnt he was never going to get anywhere by pulling and it saved my wrists, elbows and shoulders from
the pain of a sudden lunge.

You need to get the correct strength/weight lead, we started with one that was too strong which resulted in a rather startled dog and owner as he literally flew back towards me 😁.

Good luck in finding something that works for you 🤞

We’ve got a Sporn Non-Pull Harness from Amazon for our train-like puller. The difference was instant. It’s only £10 in large size at the moment, so it’s worth a go. Our boy is a second-hand, lived in a cage dog too and he’s incredibly strong.

I agree with not using the choke chain and getting a decent trainer. "Fucking hell" is not an appropriate or helpful response from a professional. My dog was a bastard for pulling, two sessions with a trainer, about two weeks of us being very strict about his behaviour and he walks perfectly now.

Every time he pulled we just stopped. When he came back to us, we'd give him loads of praise and then carry on. As soon as he pulled again, we'd stop. It took us an hour to walk about 100 metres but it was worth it.

A lot of it is finding out what they value. For some dogs, it's treats, for others it's praise and for others, it's play/toys. Once you've figured that out, you can reward them appropriately.

With the harness - have you tried the ones with the front loop instead of the back? The back loop gives them more power, but with the front loop, they literally can't pull because they will keep turning to face you. Look at the Ruffwear one.

It's hard when you get loads of conflicting advice though, I know.

Try googling the dog whisperer Cesar Millan.
He`s a top man.

You have a dog you are trying to train not to pull. You are trying to reinstate his ability to listen to gentle pressure, and not lean against his lead.

And you want to set up something for him to drag around? You want him to practice throwing his weight into his harness?!!

Not sensible.

Another vote here for a Figures 8 lead - put on properly it's not possible for a dog to pull on them. Control the head and the rest of the dog has to follow. Choke chains are cruel - there is no use for them other than to hurt the dog. If you wouldn't put a lasso around your childs neck and pull on it, then don't do it to another living creature. I would also suggest that you need help from a proper trainer; and almost certainly it sounds like your dog needs a lot more energetic exercise - this is a breed that needs lots of exercise and walking simply doesn't cut it.

@KUGA

He is NOT. He’s a twat. Please don’t follow Cesar Milan.

If you got him from a rescue they might have a dog trainer who will help him. I know the Dogs Trust do have them.

Try a Halti, they are much kinder, we use one on our dog as nothing else worked. A Halti is a bit like using a bridle or a head collar on a horse. It gives you much more control.

Just looked at figure 8 leads - I have seen them before but didn't know what they were. Thanks guys, will try one.

@Boysey45 (may be outing but nvm), family member works at a big, big rescue centre. She said behind the scenes they use choke chains on some dogs.

Qualified behaviourist here - you need to get someone out to assess WHY he is lunging at traffic; is it a fear reaction or a herding instinct? They should then give you tools to deal with it. If he’s not food motivated you may need to use toys to show him how to behave properly around traffic. Ideally you need to be somewhere he can watch traffic from over his critical distance (ie when he starts to react) and gradually get closer.

He is NOT. He’s a twat. Please don’t follow Cesar Milan.

^ this with bells on

Cesar Milan is now widely dismissed and his methods deemed abusive and ineffective.

I have a giant breed dog. He has been trained since puppy hood so even toddlers can walk him. We did a lot of on lead training. Sitting by traffic using the 'look' command - every time he made eye contact give a high value treat. We taught the command at home first then moved it to more and more distracting environments.

We also did a lot of loose lead training. Every time he stepped ahead, we stopped dead. When he returns to the correct position then move off again. The bungee lead a pp suggested would help for your guy.

Lots of off lead work at home and in your garden teaching 'heel'. Use 'look' and 'touch' tricks - where the pup has to touch your hand with his nose to get the treat.

You need to increase his focus on you and get him to ignore everything else. I would get a yellow or in training lead for now - clearly telling others he cannot he approached.

If you can go out in the evening just you then start by much quieter roads, when you first hear a car start him on 'sit' 'look' 'touch' routine. At first reward at every stage but you will get to the point you only need to reward at the end of the three, then reward only with a 'good boy!'

Instead of correcting his behaviour you need to think about teaching him a new way to react, he is too strong for you to correct after. Get in first. The mental effort for him learning will replace some of the distance so don't worry about how far you get, more that each walk is a little more successful.

@MsCupcake What you described sounds like a canicross belt/bungee line - is it similar? When I can, I do try and stand still and wait for him to notice, stop, come back etc. It's sometimes hard when he's managed to build some momentum!

@WatchingTheMoon we did the stop/wait/or change direction when he pulled. Took just over an hour to get around our little block lol. Still trying to determine what he considers a high value reward; for him I think the walk is the reward.

Thanks everyone for your replies

Of course YABU. Get a trainer to help you address the issue. Don't choke your dog

Hello, canine behaviourist here.
Please don’t use a choke chain. They cause physiological damage and (like all aversive tools) reduce trust between you and your dog which is a problem here as to counter-condition him to his triggers (like traffic) you need trust and patience.
Techniques used by the likes of Cesar Milan have been debunked through research which shows that positive reinforcement works best for dog training.
I recommend a ‘Perfect Fit’ harness or similar which will allow you to clip a double-ended lead to his chest and to his back. Go back to basics and teach loose-lead walking but do this AFTER he has had a good run off-lead. If you are near a Dogs Trust they have classes or will recommend a (qualified, ethical) trainer to support you.
The lunging at cars... you need to work on counter-conditioning. Try to keep his arousal levels low if you can before and whilst working on training. It sounds as if his cortisol levels are elevated. Rescue dogs can take a few months to ‘come down’ from stressful situations/kennels.

It sounds like you haven’t really tried one sort of training for a decent length of time? You say your DH tried one thing once and then gave up? If you’ve only had him a couple of months surely you haven’t really had a chance of actually persevering with anything, surely? Training works with patience and persistence, not just saying “well it didn’t work the first time so clearly it’s never going to work!”

Have you tried contacting some husky rescues online? Often they'll be able to help recommend a decent trainer and give some good pointers. A husky is going to need a lot of regular off lead time, brain games and likely activities like urban mushing.