To use a chokechain?

[AsahiGo]

Looking for some advice and brutal honesty, hence posting in this section haha. Also sorry for the long post.

We've had our gorgeous labsky for two months, he's a second-hand dog, and aside from being an obnoxious teenager at times, he's generally good. However, on walks he is a nightmare.

He drags, and it's BAD. To add context, my husband and I are both powerlifters, and we both struggle with him! We've tried a harness (swiftly found it gives him more power to drag through his shoulders - I swear he thanked us for it!), We've tried a halti. With the halti, it did hinder his pulling BUT, he learnt that if he walks slightly side-ways, he can still do whatever he wants. And then he started walking on his hind legs whilst trying to get the halti off with his front paws.

The other issue we have is that he is fixated on cars. He lunges at anything that moves, and yesterday he knocked my daughter into the road in front of a 4x4 (SHE IS FINE! luckily). He was on a halti and another lead attached to his collar as a backup. He still managed to get off the curb.

At the moment, I'm walking him at 4am (less traffic!) and I'm wrapping the lead around my waist and using my body weight against him. It's the only thing I can think of doing at the moment. Treats don't work - he flat out refuses them on walks, in fact, he completely ignores me.

I loathe choke chains. But I feel like I'm running out of options, and due to his fixation on chasing vehicles, it's only a matter of time before an accident happens. We have seen a couple of trainers, and they didn't know what to do with him. The last guy screamed 'FUCKING HELL!' as he was yanked across his paddock.

Obviously I need to walk this dog, but I don't know how to do it safely anymore. AIBU to try a choke chain?

@bettyjune07 thanks for your reply. Mine is a typical teen atm so he's testing the waters. He's going through each member of the family and figuring what he can get away with. dh will walk him at the weekends, and he walks nearly fine. So it's me. The trainers I worked with, I called out because I wanted them to tell me what I was doing wrong; they both came out to my house, and the second trainer/behaviourist had the second part of the session at his grounds. Second dude trains police dogs. He lost his temper with ours when he caught him off guard and pulled him.

Also taking him swimming is a great idea.

@BoomyBooms I agree, they are vile. I don't like them at all. I felt desperate though. It's great people telling me to train myself and my dog, it's something I know. I don't expect him to wake up one day and 'know'.

My point is, I feel I'm struggling to train him, because I can't safely exercise him first. All I wanted was something that would keep him, myself, and potentially drivers safe so I can knacker him out so then I can train him. But I'll take on everyone's advice. I'll try him in the garden short little 'walks' to get him used to a lead and collar. I'll continue with the 'stop'. I'll continue with the treats and positive reinforcement. And I'll look for another behaviourist.

@AsahiGo I know this is really obvious advice so I'm sorry if im patronising you but is it that there isn't a safe enclosed space for him to go mad for a while? Is he responsive to food? Taking a special treat (cheese, pieces of chopped cooked liver) to entice him back to you could help with recall in said safe enclosed space. And when using it instead of shouting his name as his return word (his name is overused and you need a more specific command) you shout "come here" and that's how cue for cheese/liver. Maybe then you could take him out off lead to burn off the energy and then start working on training?

Hi, no, I would never use a choke-chain.

But, you have my sympathies, I have a rescue Border Collie who we suspect may have some GSD in the mix and he is even a difficult puller and probably half the size of your dog! (and I am no power-lifter, more of a power walker as I have 2 BCs).

Was going to suggest only walking your dog in woods forests fields which is what we do but then noticed you say you don't have a car.
Difficult.

I suggest you look at absolute-dogs.com/, they are a training source and do web based training all based on positive methods. They also run Naughty but Nice a FB group to discuss training issues and give advice. Its well worth joining.

Agree Zak George is good too and absolute NO to C Milan [grrrrr]

Good Luck

AsahiGo, others have given you good advice about training (and one of the valuable pieces of advice is don't touch Cesar Milan's methods with somebody else's barge pole) but I just wanted to post this link as it describes a very similar-sounding situation to reiterate the importance of taking it slow and steady and focusing on getting your dog relaxed.

www.dogidog.co.uk/overstimulating/

OP I don’t know if you noticed my post amongst all the others so here it is again: a harness with a ring between the legs plus a head collar like the halti should make it possible for you to walk him while you train him.

Don't get a dog that is too powerful for you. I know, a little too late now and you weren't to know he would be THIS powerful but if a dog is dragging you about and knocking your kid onto the road, he's just too powerful and would be better suited living on a big farm or a house with a lot of land where he can roam without a lead most of the time.

The only thing I would say now is to get him trained. Perhaps a well established dog walker could assist and show you some tips to keep him under control.

I don't think choke chains are very nice for dogs at all

I have tried every single type of halter for my 2 labs (aged 4 and 6 weighing in at 32kg and 37kg) I think I have 8 different types in the cupboard. They are so strong that I just can't hold them on a halter. The 4year old chocolate lab can also stand on his hind legs and then backs out of a collar and some of the halters. My vet suggested a slip lead and they are now manageable.

We are still working on the lead training but it meant that they are now safe whilst I train them. The 7 year old now barely pulls at all and because of the design the 4 year old can't get out of it.

I think they are not to be used to cure the problem but they can be used to help keep the dog safe whilst training on the lead.

Recall training is essential to lead training in my opinion. Start with ensuring the dog knows it's name. Practise in the house, in the garden and on the walk itself. Definitely use treats to start with and use different treats for each walk. Mine love cheese cut up into tiny cubes and would do anything for it.

Zac George's videos and book are Fab.

Good luck and stick with it.

Could you get a lift/taxi to a safe space once a week and let him run? It's better than nothing.

Also if he's running on hardstanding then pay attention to his pads and claws because it's quite abrasive.

Pestypup in her ruffwear front range harness. It helps keep her safe, whilst she learns to be sensible. Main thing with harnesses is to make sure you get one that fits yourdog.

Re chasing and jumping at traffic, we also had this. Just sit somewhere (the front garden will do) and watch the traffic, watch the dustmen. Repeat endlessly, building up to busier, noisyer places. We watched the road surface being planed last week and she was fine. It is better to look like the local traffic spotting nutter, than have a squashed dog or child.

Well done with renting the school areas.

Changing harness doesn’t train them no. It did help me gain more control whilst training though.

I do hope this is sorted soon for both dog and owner. However, I do wish that people who have never started their training by using a check/choke chain PROPERLY would refrain from telling people they are a bad thing. It is the ill-informed who cause pain to the dog not the chain. I would never use a spiked collar (Torquemada?) or a harness which allows the dog to jump all over the place and wreak havoc.

And definitely don't even think about rehoming (I'm sure you aren't) there are absolutely hundreds of huskies and husky crosses in rescue centres due to the popularity of Game of Thrones, also people not realising how much hard work they are. Not including you in this OP, as you are asking for training advice not rehoming advice (and have had dogs before).

I class Huskies as like BCs but twice the size, don't think people realise that about them, most people would think very carefully before getting a BC (as they are known to be hard work).

Honestly husky’s albeit beautiful are always a ducking nightmare.
He needs to be off lead and running around HARD for at least an hour a day, not just lead walks.
My technique would be to knackered him out and then get to a trainer.
I do feel for you.

Thank you all for your advice. There's been a lot lol, so I am trying to get through them and read. Also not getting notified of new posts (hmm)
@Booboostwo - found your original now! Thank you.

Having this dog has been humbling. I grew up on a very, very big working farm, would have a minimum of ten dogs at a time, and there was hardly any need for leashes. We had Labradors that were fitted with haltis that would use them for going to the vets etc, but they stopped needing them after a year or so. Being pulled by four Labradors is nothing compared to my current tornado on legs.

Not being rude, will read through the replies again because I know I've missed lots.

And I wouldn't rehome him. I had a strop earlier and put up a petty and childish post as I knew that'd be what a lot of people would want. If everyone 'got rid' of a challenging dog, there'd be more kill-shelters in this country. I didn't adopt him to ditch him.

@SomeoneInTheLaaaaaounge - they're gorgeous. Mine actually looks like a Labrador (people think I'm lying when I say he's a x). He has a husky tail, eyes and neck. Exercise/training is what I'm trying to achieve. If I can get him on recall, we'll have brilliant walks.

@BoomyBooms - he isn't interested in treats when we're out. Even the high ticket ones like fresh meat, cheese etc, as well as the normal ones. We tried taking his tug rope out once, again not interested. The walk is the treat! We went out just now to go car watching, and he spat chicken out at me. Not interested.
It sounds like bullshit 'there's no places to let him off' but there really isn't. Well there is, but they lead on to/extremely close to roads. If he didn't give a crap about cars, I would be tempted, however knowing he will try and kill everything on wheels, and as you all know huskys being escape artists, I will not risk him being off if he can get anywhere near a road/drive way.
@QuestionableMouse dh is looking at getting a car (we don't actually need one because of where we live and his work), but we're going to get one to run mutt around in. There's dog fields just outside the city, too far to walk to though.
@PestyMachtubernahme cute dog, yeah, we're already thought of as weird around here anyway, traffic spotting wont be too strange haha
@MrsPMT thanks for your replies. Most people would love me to just get rid of him, but it's not happening. I didn't wait this long to get a dog to chuck him away. And he's had other issues which we've now hopefully sorted, so I know it can (will) be done.

Its been 10yrs since I watched the programme and I didnt witness that.
But you clearly know something I dont. So I wont suggest that again to anyone.
Thank you for the info.

Figure of eight sliplead. The dog cannot physically pull using this.

We have just rescued a Giant Schnauzer. She jumps and lunges - her paw is saucer sized and standing up she is well over 6'. We are working with a dog behaviouralist / psychologist and its working very well. I didn't feel I had any control of her. She came with a variety of collars and leads which we didn't feel were effective. The trainer has given advice on collar - not harness which the vet had recommended - and lead. The difference is amazing. Lots of things /steps which others have posted are steps we are taking. We do religiously follow the trainers advice. Mainly going forward and the setbacks are mini. The private training and advice is money well spent but has not been cheap and will continue as long as is required. We are also in for the long haul.

I know a lot of people discredit Milan, I had to study him for university. As far as the shows go, he mainly used 'leadership', 'body language', and positive reinforcement', as a training method. Not sure about behind the scenes.This was a while back. not sure about his new shows. My lecturer found Victoria Stillwell dodgy too . Just tv people.

Yes yabu to use a choke chain.

A lot of approaches to training for a lead
You've clearly tried the harness which didn't work for him, it doesn't for every dog but they are better than a collar

When they pull you stop. Do no move till the lead is slack again. This is a long long long process But it works

Head halti - they pull and it turns their head - not sure if that's what you mean when you said halti?

A dog trainer

Train away from roads

Yup that's what I mean by Halti. we use a dogmatic one

Milan used/uses dominance and pack theory - dangerous, outdated techniques that can exacerbate certain situations and which are predicated on the flawed premise that dogs are behaviourally indistinct from wolves.