To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

@cptartapp

“[W]e don't go to church and religion plays no part in our home life's. It is hypocritical, but their overall education is more important.”

Than what? Than teaching your kids to be cynical, unscrupulous liars? Sorry (not sorry), but people who think the way to bring up children is to ignore every principle that gets in the way of academic success make me sick.

The point that the OP is missing is that some schools don't have outstanding ofsteds because they are centres of academic excellence. They have them because they have ways of getting rid of the children who will skew the statistics.

And to the poster who says they had a married priest, no, you didn't. It's not possible in the catholic faith.

Oh yes it is, I have known three or four married priests. They were Anglican and came over to the Catholic Church keeping their wives (and their pensions). There are quite a few of them about and have been for more than twenty years.

Technically it is...if you are already a married priest and convert denominations.

@Derbee you don't get it, Derbee.

You wouldn't be a married priest and move denominations. You'd be a vicarious or minister but certainly not a priest.

Vicar

I did.
Baptised my first 2 to get into outstanding rated Catholic school. My younger 2 got in on sibling connection.

I don't regret it. They are all atheists by choice. But the education is worth the faux prayers.

@Moomin8 I have been reluctant to comment on this point, and the school dinners stats, in the past but the truth is, in RC schools many families don't declare their needs. They don't want the stigma on their children as many of the parents remember their own experiences in the community. They do not have the money, though.

@SewMuchForThat even though it was at the expense of genuine Catholics? What exactly do you think they learned?

The non denominational school round here were all rated poor or require improvement.
I wasn't going to set my kids up for a poor education over some ancient dogma.

The one I knew used to be Russian Orthadox - I think they are called priests rather than vicar/pastor etc.

They learned that education is for anyone who wants to take it.

Why should my kids get a 2nd rate education because they don't buy into the sky fairy deal?

I don't regret it for a second.

And I know for a fact there ate at least a dozen parents in my kids classes that have done the same having talked about it over the years.

It's not uncommon.

The school intake is high.

Church attendance is low.

Catholocism is dying out.

And hoorah for that (I was brought up Catholic myself)

I've had kids attending for over a decade and not once have the school mentioned religion to us or attending church. They don't care.

They knew my younger two weren't Baptised.

It's not like it used to be.

I went to Catholic schools & at least 50% of the kids there never set foot in a church except for the obligatory morning mass on Holy Days of Obligation (held in school chapel) or the times we got dragged off to the local Cathedral for whatever reason it was.

My current parish priest is a married with half a dozen kids Roman Catholic priest which I find weird even though he's been there a few years now.

He used to be a C of E vicar or similar before converting but I'm not sure which Christian faith it was.

I disagree with lots of the Catholic beliefs and practises

Then don't send your child to a catholic school!

Bloody hell - just when I thought I'd seen it all! Why would you want to send your child to a school when you don't believe in their ethos?

Unless you are 100% all singing & dancing catholic, don't do it. Ds got in to our local catholic school as last priority, he wasnt baptised, wasn't catholic & we don't go to church, we just put his name down as we had been told what a wonderful school it was, parents told us it was like a private school but without the fees, Ofsted rated it as outstanding. We had nothing but problems, they totally ignored signs that ds was ASD, I had to argue with them for nearly two years to allow a speech & language therapist in to observe & assess him, the catholic pupils bullied the non Catholics, the parents weren't much better. It was like being invited to a party but not being allowed to eat or join in the games, so much of the school time was spent on religion that would have been better spent on normal school subjects, over half of the parents paid for tutors to get their children through SATS. Ds was bullied & the first answer was that he ought to pray to God to make him a more friendly person. I had honestly thought that being a church based school that there would be more teaching pupils to be kind & considerate but most were far from it.

It's not like it used to be
unfortunately really depends in the school. Our local one happily teaches original sin, hellfire etc that i thought the catholic church had given up decades ago (i come from a deeply catholic country - but that school’s version of catholicism is definitely on the fundamentalists side - i don’t want my kids exposed to that!).
Reason their results are good: parents pay loads extra, they select kids (officially on faith, de facto on faith, money and having a stay at home parent - its an interview with the priest), and parents have to help out a lot every week

'people who think the way to bring up children is to ignore every principle that gets in the way of academic success make me sick'

I don't feel quite as strongly as AmateurDad, as I do have some sympathy with parents wanting the best for their children in an unequally-resourced education system, but this is the direction my feeling goes in, tbh. I also think Moomin8 is spot on with this: 'some schools don't have outstanding ofsteds because they are centres of academic excellence. They have them because they have ways of getting rid of the children who will skew the statistics.' OP does sound slightly obsessive in her pursuit of 'academics', and 'in this family we game the system to get what we want/feel we deserve' is never a great lesson for children.

@glsgow107, there are three ways someone could be a married priest in the Catholic Church. Not vicar or minister but priest:

1. He was married before becoming Catholic (and yes, usually an ordained minister in the denomination he belonged to at the time, but not necessarily), then later converted and was ordained, either the normal way or through the Ordinariate (if he had been Anglican).

1. He belongs to an Eastern Catholic Church. There are 23 Eastern rite Catholic Churches, all of them fully Catholic and all of them ordain married men.

1. He is widowed. It is perfectly possible for a widowed man, even with children (as long as they are old enough not to be classed as 'dependent'), to be ordained as a priest and always has been.

In all cases, the marriage must come before ordination. It is sometimes possible for a married man to become a priest, as above, but never possible for a priest to later marry (without renouncing his priesthood).

In schools admissions the school can only use criteria exactly as described in their admissions policy. So if they don’t State age if baptism or length or frequency of attendance at mass they can’t discount you for not complying, or prioritise someone else who has been there longer.

—but tell that to a certain London secondary—

They may well ‘see right through you’ but they have to apply the published admissions criteria for their particular school.

But it looks as if you may need to be looking at the criteria for baptism and the timetable for your conversion, preparation classes etc.

Personally I think that as the teachers and other running costs of Faith schools are paid from our taxes just like a community school everyone should have the same chance to apply.

But I wouldn’t in a million years be able to bring myself to get a 4 or 5 year old child baptised when I had demurred at birth over the idea of consent.

I'm sure God will judge you for this.

There should be no faith schools

Camomila Orthodox Catholic and Roman Catholic are two different things - the history is interesting.

I'm also offended by some of the posts on this thread. Exchange the word 'Catholic' for 'Jew' or 'Muslim' and it would be pulled.

OP, as a Christian you may want to revisit the Bible - Proverbs 12.22 is clear on lies.

Round here you have to have a minimum of 2 years regular attendance to get a religious place in any faith school. Priority goes to looked after children and children with additional needs, siblings, families who regularly attend the attached religious establishment, families who regularly attend other religious establishments of the same faith, and then the local community.

If it’s one of your nearest schools are you sure you wouldn’t be likely to get a place anyway?