To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

I agree with Calamity above. Most politicians are in it to help others and most could earn more elsewhere. I don't think many are "evil". Suggesting they are just harms the cause of the person saying so as it can make them look at bit silly.

However by all means debate the issues.

In terms of children the Conservatives mean the UK will have a better balanced economy which will be there for the benefit of our children and where hard work pays off. The Labour party tends to reward idleness. Both parties believe in a welfare state by the way so any suggestions Labour or the Tories are out to remove it are not true.

Most politicians are in it to help others and most could earn more elsewhere

The expenses scandal disproved that! yes many could earn more elsewhere but they would lose the power.

In terms of children the Conservatives mean the UK will have a better balanced economy which will be there for the benefit of our children and where hard work pays off

Only for some, a hard working nurse still earns a pittance, the growth of zero hours contracts have led to a very unbalanced economy, Children having to use food banks or turning up at school hungry isn't a good advert for conservatism.

The Labour party tends to reward idleness. Both parties believe in a welfare state by the way so any suggestions Labour or the Tories are out to remove it are not true

Only ever worked under one Labour Govt but i earnt more than i ever have before or since, tax rates were fair and i didn't spend my net earnings on high indirect taxes like i do now.
Tories want and have succeeded in a far smaller welfare state, they have also taken away all of the contributory element.
They have protected their core older voters pensions though :)

Actually- I think the tone and language of some of the Tory voters on here sums up how I feel about the party. I know NATALT, but talk of “choice” when it’s a choice only available to the rich, words like wastrel and job shy, the suggestion that people are the instrument of their own misfortune, people who resent paying tax because they “work hard” for their money. All of this suggests a selfish mindset with little sense of community.

The Labour party tends to reward idleness.
There it is again, another vague platitude.
Please feel free to elaborate - but we know you won't.

I see Xenia is talking her usual nonsense. Idleness is not rewarded by anybody. As for your comments about children being looked after why so many more in poverty now? Oh and balancing the books better under Tories is laughable; particularly under the present Tory government. Honestly Xenia I’ve been arguing with you for years. You’re not by any stretch stupid, but you have a huge blind spot when it comes to welfare and politics. Do the research first.

I don't think many are "evil". Suggesting they are just harms the cause of the person saying so as it can make them look at bit silly

YY to this^^.

I also agree that most politicians, (even the Tories ), go into politics for the right reasons. You'd need to be seriously unhinged to do that job if you didn't believe in your cause. There is the odd one who just loves the pomp and ceremony I think, but they usually end up in the civil service side of things . JOKING! My bff is a civil servant at Westminster - honestly!

Obviously, they (MPs) get things horribly wrong and probably do get swept up in the 'game' / power struggle. But, I don't think it's that they're "evil". Although, they do say that people who don't empathise well, frequently end up being really successful, so... who knows?

Either way though, saying "all tories are mean and howwible and nasty" sounds infantile. And I say that as a lifelong non-Tory voter, (mainly Labour if you'd like to know, but I flirt with the others too - political floozy that I am ). I cannot ever envisage any circumstances when I would vote Tory either, but it does look silly when people use "they're all evil" as a serious argument not to vote for them.

I also agree that Xenia is wrong in her politics btw. Just to clarify. But her thought process does make sense. It just happens to be wrong imo.

But her thought process does make sense

mmmmmmmm not backed up by the evidence, it's just her belief.

When heads of our schools march through London to protest at under funding, you know the Cons are not interested in our children's education.
Their defence was that educational spending is world class and produced the figures to back it up..... until found out that they had included private school fees and student loans into "education spending"

Well, I don't think they r evil, but I don't like the conservative party because ....

They (Mr Cameron) started the whole brexit mess in the first place and are making a real hash of it, whatever side of the line you fall on.

They have destroyed the NHS to the point that, especially mental health care, is in complete crisis (and my fear is that if they continue in power for a few more years, they will eradicate the NHS in favour of a private system).

They have awful awful policies regarding crime and offending. The prison service is in a complete state. Prisons are waaaay under funded. Conservatives have no clue whatsoever of the social factors related to crime and no desire to address root causes and invest in real rehabilitation attempts and preventative strategies. I work in a prison, we don't even have enough money to provide enough radios to keep each staff member safe. There is no money for enough staff on the wings. There are rats, pigeons, cock roaches, pigeon poo, drugs, stench, everywhere. You would have thought it was the 1800s where I work. Not 2019.

The cuts to the education system are driving teachers out, giving schools few options to provide good education, and givng our children a poor start in life.

Austerity in all its glory has hit most households pretty hard. We are all working. DH and I are even lucky enough to have above average incomes - but we still still struggle with daily bills, etc...

The politicians who supposedly represent us all seem pretty out of touch. They are making a mess of the country. They are all in it for themselves and very few actually understand life outside Eton, Windsor, Oxbridge and the male elite circles.

They want a return to the 'good old days' of Empire and the peasants under their thumb (or jackboots).

In terms of children the Conservatives mean the UK will have a better balanced economy which will be there for the benefit of our children and where hard work pays off. The Labour party tends to reward idleness. Both parties believe in a welfare state by the way so any suggestions Labour or the Tories are out to remove it are not true.

Didn't the Tories vote against the creation of the NHS nine times before Clemente Atlee managed to get it done? Didn't the Tories oppose the introduction of the minimum wage?

Have you heard of a book called 'Britannia Unchained'? It's a book written by Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Liz Truss, etc where they talk about our working culture not being fit for the 21st century and how we should abolish holiday accrual, work bank holidays like they do in the States, increase our working hours, etc. This is what these people really want.

What Labour policies in particular reward idleness? Or do you mean properly caring for people who cannot help themselves? Putting in place support systems like Surestart or ensuring people aren't made homeless or have to rely on foodbanks?

Not sure what you mean by better balanced economy? You must be one of those that falls for the line that the Labour government of 1997-2010 was the most powerful force on earth and should have been responsible for bankers in Wall Street and countries such as Greece, Portugal, etc excessive borrowing.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't agree nurses are paid a pittance. www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2019/03/25502.pdf

On poverty the definitions are hard to get right. If you do it relatively then in recessions when those in the middle and top have less money then children of the less well off are lifted out of poverty as they are relative to the others better off than they were. If you take a measure with no comparison/relative measure UK benefits are relatively generous compared to many countries and do provide enough for housing and food and heating. Indeed the Archbishop of Canterbury even admitted as much.

Hoever I am not the one to convert. If Labour wants to win power it is going to have to do an awful lot better because currently I just cannot see it winning an election (thankfully).

I don't agree nurses are paid a pittance. www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2019/03/25502.pdf

That’s a decent salary actually!

We will just have to agree to disagree
How do Labour “reward idleness” as you put it?
Your MO is weird - you make claims, but if challenged you post about some unrelated topic. Are you a Tory politician?

That’s a decent salary actually!

Really?

3 years in uni, 50k of debt and end up earning 24k as a band 5 and a 9% graduate tax as you progress.

If it were well paid, there wouldn't be 40,000 nursing vacancies.

My DD is going straight from Uni to Australia, such are the working conditions in the NHS.

The HCA who wired me up for an ECG, said she would never upskill to a nurse, as the pay (after tax) is little more, she'd have loads more responsibility and would be forced to work shifts.

"Most politicians are in it to help others and most could earn more elsewhere." It's not just the salary, as mps they are in a position to create and have passed legislation that leads to profits eg legislation on tenancies, taxation...

"In terms of children the Conservatives mean the UK will have a better balanced economy which will be there for the benefit of our children" except "tories are better for economy" has been pretty much completely disproven

"The Labour party tends to reward idleness" utter nonsense! The Labour Party (as the name implies) is the party of the WORKING class, this demographic is poorly rewarded for that work but they do work and work hard. The erroneous idea that people who earn more work harder really needs to be binned!

"Both parties believe in a welfare state" they absolutely don't! The tories have rallied against it every step of the way! They're far more subtle about it now because they know being open about that, particularly being anti Nhs, is a vote loser but no the tories have never welcomed the welfare state.

I think we are starting to see your true colours though Xenia.

"All of this suggests a selfish mindset with little sense of community." Definitely

"We will just have to agree to disagree." Except we're not even at that point because you refuse to back up your comments. Myself and others have asked you repeatedly to point to the policies or evidence which backs up their "caring" policies or support of the less well off, the vulnerable, that they're best for the economy etc and as far as I can tell you have barely attempted to answer any questions and several really important ones you've completely ignored.

The pp who said you through out platitudes but don't really present an argument was right.

One thing I don't understand about the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade who were probably born into a middle class life is do they not consider that a bit more redistribution of wealth in society might lead to them paying less tax in the long term and a happier life for their kids.

Take crime for example, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that deprived areas and poverty lead to crime and other social issues, wouldn't it make more sense to give people hope and a purpose by educating and funding them now so that in 10-15 years time we don't have to spend more money on policing, prisons, more benefits, etc?

On another note why do working and middle class people think that a party which is funded by multimillionaires, corporations and landed gentry spanning back hundreds of years is going to look out for their interests more than a party that is funded by 14 million teachers, nurses, doctors, office workers, postmen, etc?

I have a friend ( it is not me) who works hard for the Conservatives and especially ( she was a councillor ) to upgrade a labour ( voting - historically - just fact - she would not expect a vote from them ) part of the ward to make the accommodation much nicer. Lots of work as there needed to be a lot of money. She has worked hard for this

This really is me saying "friend" it is not me - because I would say it but I don't see that all Tories are rubbish. She has worked hard for the whole ward / constituency.

Believe it or not as you will - but she is a kind and hardworking woman.
I don't agree with all the ways she votes but she has worked hard for all

Basilisk and that is why I always distinguish between Conservative voters and activists - who have some very decent people among them; I have friends like yours - and the current crop of Westminster Tories. The problem is that it's the Westminster ones who make policy, and the others vote for it when polling day comes. If we did away with FPTP and developed some moderate centre ground political movements, the political landscape would change for the better, and your person in the street conservative would be part of that.

I will never say that all Tories are evil - but Tory politicians are a pretty horrendous lot.

3 years in uni, 50k of debt and end up earning 24k as a band 5 and a 9% graduate tax as you progress.

I didn’t realize that nurses need a degree!

Dongdingdong they do - and the Tories abolished bursaries for nurses as well, replacing them with loans. It caused an immediate drop in applications for nurse training.

wouldn't it make more sense to give people hope and a purpose by educating and funding them now so that in 10-15 years time we don't have to spend more money on policing, prisons, more benefits, etc

As Victor Hugo said, open a school and you close a prison.

If you earn £24k as a nurse under the current loan scheme you never pay a penny of the student loan back so in that sense the debt does not exist and it is a gift from tax payers. Student loans are only paid no salaries now over £25k at 9% on the salary over £25k so if you earn say £30k as a teacher you pay back £500 a year.