To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

Wehttam.

Many people on here saying they are not "all good" won't be on benefits. Many will earn more than the average wage. They just feel that the Tory ethos doesn't align with their ethical and moral code.....so very much not good rather than all good

Weh - I'm not on benefits and I hate them. Your theory is BS.

Wehttam

They're doing far more damage to the country than just slashing benefits, and it will affect everyone.

If you’re on benefits then of course you’ll hate them. For everyone else it’s all good.

I’m not on benefits, and I loathe them. Unlike you although I’m thankfully not poor and desperate I care about those who are, because There but for the Grace of God.
One word of advice should you choose to take it. If you don’t it’s of no concern to but.
Try not be smug karma doesn’t like it.

Whettam If you’re on benefits then of course you’ll hate them, for everyone else it’s all good

I'm on benefits. I hate them.

I've been on quite a high rate of disability benefits for almost a decade.

About 8 years ago, the therapy service I was on the waiting list for closed, as a result of cuts to mental health budgets. I have received no treatment to date.

Every 18 months (approx.) I'm reassessed for benefits, fail, go through a (presumably costly) appeal process, and win, due to huge amounts of medical evidence that is ignored until appeal stage. This process is so demoralising it sets my mental health back months each time, which you can measure in £ if you like by emergency mental health support, crisis team, occasional police, etc.

They've done an excellent job of making sure I remain as large a drain on the public purse as possible, for as long as possible.

I'm just surprised you don't hate them for this too, as money is presumably the bottom line for you.

I am not on benefits but care about others who may be, through no fault of their own.

It's a very Tory attitude to think that only the net takers can be against the Conservative view.

I have never in my life been 'on benefits'. We don't even receive child benefit in my house as we don't qualify, (income too high).

However, I am not a net contributer to the state and I would put money on that being the case for most Tory voters too.

I went all the way through school and university and I've had four hospital admissions from when I had a minor op and from when we had children. I do not and probably will not pay enough tax to cover things like that happening my whole life. Arguably, some people who receive benefits, cost the state less than I have!

My children will go to state school, as is probably the case for most people in the UK, and although we have private health care, we have to use the NHS to get referrals to.private doctor and very few private health insurance policies will cover childbirth, so we had our children at NHS hospitals.

I commented earlier that people always think about "those people on benefits", when they don't realise that, even without receiving benefits, most people, including themselves, receive help from the state and are not net contributers. So, when they vote to limit benefits and then find themselves needing more of the help they have already received they will be a little perplexed no doubt when it just isn't there anymore.

Do some research before you make silly comments Whet.

My dad on the other hand, probably is and has been a net contributer and he openly says he enjoys paying tax. He isn't a selfish cunt though*, so...

neither are most decent Tory voters. But that view posted^^ by weht* is, imho, selfish and cunty.

If you’re on benefits then of course you’ll hate them, for everyone else it’s all good

What a reductive comment. I’m not on benefits. I actually would benefit as an individual from many Tory policies. That has been the case throughout my working life.

I would never vote Tory because their core ideology is not something I can align myself to.

Anyone not super rich are fucked, basically the poor , the working man and the sick , disabled, retired we are all screwed. They only look after their own. I'm actually surprised that the deseaced are not being declared fit for work. You will never retire you will work until the day you drop down dead .

Reversiblesequins' post a lot further upthread is exactly my view.

Also this: 'people always think about "those people on benefits", when they don't realise that, even without receiving benefits, most people, including themselves, receive help from the state and are not net contributers'.
The state covers parts of the costs of middle and higher earners in all sorts of ways that these often don't acknowledge. It's certainly the case for me (middle earner, not in the UK, pay a lot of tax and statutory health insurance but also get all sorts of rebates for costs associated at least in part with my middle class lifestyle; childcare, school fees, savings for old age provision etc).

The term 'benefits' doesn't help. Literally 'good deeds' (or thereabouts). Implies benefits are essentially charity rather than what people require for a life consummate with human dignity.

I know it happened under Labour as well and It’d be unfair to fully blame the Tories, but Something that should not exist is WTC.
There should be zero need for them to exist.
A fair days work for a fair days pay should mean exactly that. Employers shouldn’t be allowed to pay a pittance while Tax Credits holds their employees hand.
If you’re working full time. You shouldn’t need any help financially

I don't think Tories or their voters are inherently evil. I just think people in general are shortsighted. The difference is that Tory voters are more likely to think 'that will never happen to me' about people on benefits. I have no idea why. Non Tory voters are more likely to be of the 'there but for the grace of [deity of choice] go I' because ill health, relationship breakdown or accident can happen to anyone. It's just a different way of viewing life.

I agree with Jacqueshammer

Not on benefits but certainly not "all good" with ever voting Tory.

Not surprisingly the Tories are very popular at the momentt and Labour is not. So although there may be a few people on this thread who are not keen on Tory policies that is not representative of most people in the UK.

It is all pretty simple. If you have £100 in your family pot for the week Labour would spend it today so there is nothing left to feed the chidlren for 6 more days until pay day. The Tories conserve it and ensure there is enough for all. not surprisingly those kinds of policies are quite popular. I am not in favour of the recent spending suggestions of the Tory party however as we still as a nation spend more than we take in.

That's a totally fair opinion to have Xenia, and that is my interpretation of the conservative ideology. Spend less, tax less, in a very basic nutshell. Embarrassingly, I am actually a politics graduate but I don't think I'm showing that off very well on here... .

Socialism, (where Labour has its roots), advocates the opposite. Spend more, tax more. It means a 'bigger' state, compared to the conservative ideology.

And, weirdly, conservatism is actually the more liberal of the two. Freedom from the state, freedom to spend your earnings how you like; if you prioritise saving for your pension or in case of illness, divorce, disability etc, fab. If you don't... well you might be fucked, but that's on you.

It isn't a terrible or evil ideology. I just happen to disagree with it and believe that left leaning political ideologies provide a more even playing field. Because, not everyone can just wake up one day and simply 'choose' to do a high paying career. Even if they decide to prioritise earning loads of money at an early age, they may lack the support that some people have at home and at school. Hell, they might simply lack the required creativity or intelligence achieve what some people do.
Maybe they have a disability or a disabled parent or sibling they need to care for. They are always going to be scrabbling to catch up and I simply don't find that fair. That's why the "leave them to it" approach is something I disagree with. Yes, I know, life isn't always fair, but there are ways to make it more so. And refusing to do those things is something I find wrong.

I also believe that some of the current cohort of Conservative MPs and their policies are seeking appeal to the worst side of society. Not that only solid gold bastards vote for them of course, but solid gold bastards are attracted to what they are selling and that shows. It's not something I would ever wish to be associated with, even if I had a more conservative leaning.

Like a pp, I also know you from other threads btw and you are indeed always very measured and fair minded. I think your legal background shows on here and it's to your credit.

So, although you think that Labour would just spend, spend, spend and that Tories conserve it "so there is enough for all", I think the Tory policy of reducing taxation, particularly from the wealthiest, evens things out. Yes, they spend less, but they also take less in tax from the wealthiest.

For me, taking more from the wealthiest, so that the poorest are less poor makes sense for any society that calls itself civilised. And I say that as someone who grew up in, and now lives in, households where we already pay the highest amount of tax.

Missed out a couple of words:

Seeking TO appeal...
Intelligence required TO achieve...

I'm on my phone, sorry.

Also:

"Because, not everyone can just wake up one day and simply 'choose' to do a high paying career which would enable them to save enough for their futures, assuming there was limited state help available to them"

I'll shut up now! Waffling.

@Xenia I notice you never answer any questions about the bland generalised and unrealistic posts you make.

Not surprisingly the Tories are very popular at the momentt and Labour is not.
Tories 33% Labour and Lib Dems 22% each in the most recent poll, so true Labour less popular than the Tories, but significantly more people want somethnig other than the Tories.

So, although you think that Labour would just spend, spend, spend and that Tories conserve it "so there is enough for all"
I would have thought that a politic grad would see through this Troy propoganda for the nonsense it is - the Tories are great at being spendthift when it suits them - but then they pretend the only party that ever spends is Labour. It's a convenient story but it's not factual.

Xenia - actually I think it's more a case of £100 in the pot

Labour - use £70 to pay the bills so the rent is paid, utilities don't get cut off and there's food to eat, £20 to save and £10 to someone worse off.

Cons - take £50 to give to someone who already has £1000 for the week and doesn't need it, saves £40 (because saving is a "good thing to do") but is then left with only £10 to pay the bills and so puts £90 of the cost of bills on a high interest credit card!

I would have thought that a politic grad would see through this Troy propoganda for the nonsense it is

Well, I think the word 'propoganda' is a bit loaded and unhelpful tbh, but I do indeed disagree with it. I was just quoting back to Xenia.

As I said, it is not that Labour would spend, spend, spend, till the pot runs out, while the Tories would stoically and sensibly dish it out in a measured way, ensuring there is enough for all.

The conservative ideology, which advocates a small state, free market capitalism and lower taxes means that of course they will spend less, because they will be taking less in taxes and because that is what they do. It would be unfathomable that they do anything other than spend less. But they also aim to tax less and to do less, as far as the average woman on the street is concerned.

Nobody will need help, you see, as they will have the 'freedom' to succeed and control their own futures.... except that we do not live on an even playing field. And what is sold as freedom is sometimes abandoning people who desperately need help. Which is why I do not agree with conservatism as an ideology.

And I especially don't support the current Tory party MO, which I believe has reached new depths that I wouldn't be comfortable with, even if I was a lifelong Conservative.

That's as harsh as I'll go .

No time to RTFT, but for me it's because of the things they say and the things they do.