To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

." I live on a council estate in one of the poorest parts of the country and no one here is in poverty"

One of the most contradictory statements ive ever seen on here.

So you know the financial details of EVERYONE on your estate.

You have plenty of statements to back that up. How many addresses on that estate e,g. 500? So you really need to start a thread of your own.

familycourt

I mean, does it even need to be said, (I cannot believe it does, but here we are), that ideology and hard facts, such as information on taxation, are incomparable and completely separate, although intertwining, issues? To pick one aspect of a party's TRADITIONAL IDEOLOGY and then seek to prove, using data from a few years that they didn't abide by that aspect so that you can argue the ideology is completely false is one of the most roundabout and unnecessary arguments I've ever had in my life and I've been on MN for years .

If you mean to say that the current Conservative Party and indeed, the Conservatives going back to the 70s are in fact NOT conservative at all and something else entirely, I think that's a really interesting theory.

But seeing as this thread asked why we wouldn't vote tory, (plus some weird hyperbole about the axis of evil blah blah) and I was civilly addressing Xenia, explaining why I didn't agree with EITHER the ideology OR the current party, then why the fuck are you arguing with me? Jesus, talk about an own goal for your party of choice.

That's a really interesting theory...for another thread perhaps.

then why the fuck are you arguing with me? Jesus, talk about an own goal for your party of choice.

I am sorry I seem to have offended you and I really didn't mean to. I was just expressing an opinion.

Xenia never actually engages with the issues - just skirts around them with platitudes. You can maintain an illusion of civility by doing this but addressing actual issues can upset some people.

I apologise (truly) - as I said it wasn't meant personally.

one of the most roundabout and unnecessary arguments I've ever had in my life and I've been on MN for years

I will take that as a compliment, thanks.

Partly because of what they say, but mostly because of what they do.

This!

Health and Social Care Act 2012
Children's DLA to Pip at 16
UC
Austerity
.
.
.
Brexit
Boris Johnson
JRM

Your very first comment to me was "I would expect a politics grad to see through Tory propaganda like that". So yes, you did get personal. Immediately.

But I accept your apology .

I will take that as a compliment, thanks

And yes, be proud .

.

Lets see:
Brexit
Windrush
Universal credit
Cuts to everything
Jacob Rees Mogg
Priti Patel
Boris
Worse public transport
Abolition of bursary for NHS workers

To name a few...

@FelicityFlutterby Eeeek you are right - I forgot that bit. My inferiority complex about only having politics A level I suppose. Sorry (again).

Watch I, Daniel Blake. This is the system the Tories brought in and support.
I know it's fiction, but all based on real policies and the effects it is having on people are very real.
Then consider why people think they are nasty.

That film is just propaganda.

(I have not been upset by anything on the thread. I think it's good when we can discuss issues amicably. he Tories are well ahead of Labour in the polls so Labour certainly have their work cut out for them).

I agree with most PP on this thread, but I don't have the energy to tag, sorry. Just - respect for being more articulate than me.
To the OP - I was born and raised a Tory. I am privileged in background, education and income. For many years - to my eternal shame - I voted Tory if I voted at all because you know, stability and all that: economic expertise lalalala. And then one day I woke up. I don't know why, maybe the menopause stopped me sleeping and I looked - actually looked at what was around me. And even then I felt certain - somehow - that maybe the coalition would pull it off, that nice would win. Since then I have watched people struggle for the basics of survival in this proud first world country. I have seen our local foodbank run out of food in the school holidays because families with one parent can't work zero hours contracts and look after children effectively enough. I have seen a GP cry because they have no vouchers to hand out. I have known my terminally ill sister leave hospital and walk across a public car park in town in nothing but a dressing gown and crocs four sizes too big (borrowed, swollen feet) to her benefit assessment to make sure that she was too ill to work - because they REFUSED to accept the NHS consultants letter that explained her emergency admission meant her appointment needed to be delayed. I have known my gardener's (yes, I'm still privileged to keep someone else in work) have to drive his son - who has a medically proven life limiting degenerative condition suffered by less than 300 people in this country, who has no memory beyond ten minutes and who needs a walking frame to stand - as I say, had to drive his son to a three yearly benefits assessment to explain why he cannot work. It's not good enough to say that 'people get it wrong, computers get it wrong.' We treat the old, the ill, the confused and the vulnerable like absolute shit in this country and I am ashamed to be part of what is widely regarded as the establishment . Utterly ASHAMED. and I will never ever in any circumstances ever vote conservative again. Never. Ever.

Watch I, Daniel Blake. This is the system the Tories brought in

I haven’t seen the film, but from what I’ve seen and heard it is largely based on the Work Capability Assessment system used to determine eligibility for ESA.

This was introduced by the last Labour government (waits for all the shouts of ‘they weren’t REAL labour).

Hello Dominic!

Why should the poor and disabled be forced to suffer the consequences of Tory Mates and voters decisions?

They value wealth over humanity

Xenia it's not propaganda. I see it happening in real life all the time through the volunteer work I do.

I think that a core Tory value used to be social responsibility. Make lots of money but look after your inferiors. Not that that was what happened- but it was the ideal. It’s not even the ideal now.

That film is just propaganda.

It's sadly not. It's very accurate in my experience.

I don't hate the Conservatives or believe them to be "nasty" and "evil". I believe that the majority of MPs on both sides get into politics for decent reasons. Like in any field, those who are more ruthless and attention seeking tend to rise to the top as they crave the spotlight.

They believe in free markets and lower taxes as a way to generate jobs and income.

They legalised equal marriage.

I don't agree with all of their policies, nor do I agree with all of Labour's. There are MPs I like and dislike in both parties

I think the sooner we stop speaking in infantile terms like "goodies" and "baddies" and actually examine which policies we like regardless of who puts them forward, the better.

I don't know how anyone with children can vote conservative. To take such a gamble with your childrens future in that way. If they for whatever reason needed the support from the state, be it healthcare or godforbid they suffer a breakdown and need mental health support then you would surely want those services to be in the best possible condition.

Your average Tory in any position of power really does not care about that. Yes you will find sociopaths and narcissists in all political parties but the vast majority of people who join left leaning ones do it because of public service and because they have a heart. Your average Tory does it for power and money or because they have that Eton born to rule mentality where any sort of empathy has been stripped away and must ensure that 55% of the countries wealth continues to be owned and controlled by 1% of the population.

You only have to look at Priti Patels speech the other day to see the hard right mentality; do people not realise that her ideals combined with Brexit take us back 50 years, it was one of the most regressive speeches I have ever watched, like something you'd expect from a Russian during the cold war arguing why the Berlin Wall and annexation of Eastern Europe was great. Again do people think that stopping free movement of people is actually good thing, to stop your own childrens possible dreams of working or studying abroad? Did no alarm bells chime in the back of Tory voters heads that it all sounded very authoritarian?

Watching the Tory conference and seeing them so high in the polls is something I just cannot understand, I can only assume those that vote Tory haven't read (or at least are aware of) 1984 or have any clue who Joseph Goebbels is. Do people really think that the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg are looking out for the best interests of your average joe or Boris caring about the homeless when he clearly sits on the Cluster B spectrum and is very likely a self aware narcissist.

Watching the Tory conference and seeing them so high in the polls is something I just cannot understand

That is why you lose

Bertrand that's true. Conservatives were about the status quo and there was an element of the patrician about it all. Thatcher didn't do that element and Conservatism has lost the element of responsibility. It's all gone Loadsamoney and Bullingdon..

I find it incredibly hard to believe the Tories are going to build more hospitals when they havent facilitated the removal of the flammable cladding that is on some of the hospitals that already exist!!